dog tunneling under chain link fence

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wrote:

I don't want a pet to have ANY defense against a toddler other than fleeing. Jesus, you would rather a small child get cut up than allow a cat to have its hair pulled.
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wrote:

I'm sure you have a way of teaching this to a cat.

Are you a complete idiot. Have you ever had a cat and visiting kids. Cats are usually curled up minding their own business. A cat can't flee when a kid has a death grip on it. It swipes with it's front paw.
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You said "Toddler". A cat that can't avoid a toddler is either ancient or retarded.
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wrote:

FACT asshole: Declawed cats BITE. Cat bites can be very dangerous.
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Prove it. I've had several cats, all declawed and none of them ever bit anyone. Perhaps your biting cats are frustrated over something else?
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Personal anecdotes don't amount to proof.
However...
Our cat is declawed. Early on she got excited in our screened in porch and then turned around and sunk her teeth into my hand. A few days later I needed to visit a doctor because the wound got infected. Seemed pretty dangerous to me.
Since then she's gotten me a couple of times. She can certainly protect herself.
Overall she's a very nice cat, follows us around the house, comes when called.
Declawed cats should never be let outside. In most areas, I don't think any cat should be let outside.
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Declawed cats are an obscenity. Cats kept inside are another atrocity. Such a cruel world.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.not says...

I think any cat owner who would let a cat outside to shit in my yard and kill songbirds to be an atrocity and should be shot for it. Stick that up your dumb ass.
--
Keith

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http://www.spcanova.org/adoptc.htm
8. Declawing. Our cats may not be declawed. If you want a declawed cat, ask if we have one that is already declawed. Reason: Declawing is cruel, physically and psychologically, and completely unnecessary. A cats claws function as part of its fingers and toes. Declawing means amputating the last joint of a cats toes. The surgery and recovery is extremely painful. Declawing impedes a cats ability to walk and play as well as protect and groom themselves. Psychologically, cats need to claw as part of their grooming ritual and many cats knead with their claws to express comfort. Declawed cats tend to have higher levels of anxiety because they feel defenseless and often become biters. They also tend to react to stress by acting out such as by not using their litter boxes. Frequent clipping of the tip of the claw can help alleviate damage due to scratching. An SPCA volunteer or your vet can show you how to properly clip claws. Give your cat plenty of appropriate things to scratch and gently correct your cat if it scratches the wrong things. A little patience, positive reinforcement, and consistency in training alleviates the vast majority of scratching problems.
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Lots of nice words that only lack one thing. Proof of any kind whatsoever. Millions of happy, contented, declawed cats belie everything in that statement. All it has is an author who wants to attribute human characteristics to animals and then spout amateurish Psychoanalysis on them
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snipped-for-privacy@yo.pad says...

Who gives a shit what some looney site says.

Only if done by a butcher.

Bullshit feline psychobabble.

Wrong again. The cats enjoy scratching. They can now do it to their heart's content, on anything that takes their fancy.

No more than your toenails do. They don't have an opposable thumb, you know?

Lie!
Is that why ours were bouncing all around the house and scratching on the scratching post when they got home?

Lie. they can play perfectly well, without causing pain to each other, or me.

Lie.
Lie. Declawed cats still "claw".

As do declawed cats. No points here either.

Often? Cats with their claws never do? More feline psychobabble.

Try changing their litter next week. It works.

Speaking of stressing out a cat! Do you give it a bath at the same time?

My vet can properly remove the claws too. So can my brother (also a vet) who highly recommends declawing when the cat is neutered. I suppose you don't approve of that either, because it might cause stress, or some other psychobabble.

Clip the claws and let it scratch whatever it wants.

Cliping the claws resolves all of them, instantly,
--
Keith

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http://www.goodcatswearblack.com/declawing/about_declawing.htm Declawing related web sites:
Petition to outlaw declawing - please sign petition on declawing Helping Paws - Animal shelter dedicated to ending declawing The Paw Project: Non-profit agency dedicated to end declawing of all cats (tigers, lions, domestic, etc.) phone 1-877-PAWPROJECT (1-877-729-7765) The Whole Cat Journal, comprehensive article on declawing http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/claws.html - Consumer affairs complaint www.de-clawing.com http://declaw.lisaviolet.com http:www.amby.com/cat_site www.stopdeclaw.com www.declaw.com www.listnow.com/helpingpaws/ www.avar.org, download Summer 2001 issue, pages 2&3 http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm - The Whole Cat Journal, great article! 5 comprehensive pages on declawing by Gary Lowenthal Helping Paws: http://www.listnow.com/helpingpaws/articles/article_175.html
anti-declaw t-shirts and bumper stickers
www.de-clawing.com - directory to declawing sites on the Internet
http://amby.com/cat_site/declaw.html - comprehensive anti-decalwing website
http://declaw.lisaviolet.com - has a no-declaw web ring
www.stopdeclaw.com - hall of fame/shame veterinarians
http://cats.about.com/cs/declawing/index.htm - more declawing information
http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/declaw.html
Pet Planet To scratch or not to scratch.
Maine Coon Cats , click on "cat health topics" for info on declawing. Check out the website of my friend, Tom. Has pictures of beautiful cats!
Animal Protection Institute (API) on Declawing: Behavior Modification or Destructive Surgery?
Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights (AVAR)
www.4asap.org
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/claws.html & http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/claws03.html - complaints I filed with consumer affairs
www.catsinternational.org
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snipped-for-privacy@yo.pad says...

Where? San Fran? Only in a loony bin would they come up with such a stupid idea. All it'll do is remove revenue from the pockets of the vets in that town and send it to the next one over. Classic leftist nonsense.
--
Keith

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Declawed cats are not allowed outdoors (except by morons). Virtually all pet advocacy groups recommend that cats NEVER be allowed to roam outdoors yet millions of ignorant people do it and then wonder why fluffy doesn't come home some night.
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Along the same lines, but without the cruelty..... Get the dog nail clippers out, and trim the claws right down to the quick without cutting it. It does reduce the effectiveness of their digging ability. Regular trimming makes the quick recede, and lets you trim them ever shorter. It works on cats too. I've found a good manicure keeps them from having an interest in attacking the furniture. Mine are mostly outdoor casts, and even with a good trimming, they can climb trees, and do a good job of fending off nosey dogs.
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My understanding (old memory, may be incorrect) in the case of cats, if they cannot scratch and pull with their claws it is uncomfortable and/or painful. They have to shed the casing. Have often found the intact hollow casings.
Providing a post/stand unit of some type with like jute/manilla rope, they will go at quite willingly. I believe when they do the pulling they also leave scent there which promotes bringing them back to "their" place.
For the hardcores, pet stores sell strips of double sticky clear film. Virtually invisible unless you know it's there and look for it. Put it in their no-no chosen spot. Absolutely hate it. Change habit quick. Head for new rope stand:-)
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This isn't directed to you specifically..
Please don't declaw animals. Their claws are NOT glorified fingernails. Essentially by declawing them you are removing the ends of their fingers - I can't think of any reason to do that. Get a sisal scratching post for your cats - they honestly prefer those over furniture.
Some dogs dig, it's just who they are and you can't stop it except with drastic behavior mods. Either socialize them better and stop chaining them to an engine block in the backyard or get an electronic fence - those work.
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Yea, why would they wanna scratch their balls when they can lick 'em?
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wrote:

The same way prisoners a kept inside the fence. A cement footer/border with steel straps or stakes into the cement and ground.
See bottom of fence here (one sample)
http://www.dreamstime.com/prisonexerciseyard.-image194132
-- Oren
"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
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dkhedmo wrote:

Thanks very much to those who gave useful, constructive advice, it was much appreciated. All the other stuff that cropped up, I'm staying out of - dog breeds, owner responsibility, cat ownership, declawing... Have fun, let me know when you're done!
In regard to those concerned the dog was being left alone in the yard all day, this is not at all the case. I am a stay-at-home mom and the dog is with people, both inside and outside, much of the day. We would not have gotten a dog if it would be left home alone all day. In fact, he was in the yard on a beautiful sunny Thanksgiving afternoon with both our sons while the adults were in and out when he tunneled his way to freedom. Thank goodness the older one saw him take off and ran to get us. The dog is new to us and had been a bit neglected and without training for a couple of years, so we're working on some issues and getting into a class. I think his previous family allowed him to drag them around on the leash and getting out into the neighborhood was a regular issue they never really stopped effectively.
He does need more socialization with other dogs, I agree, and we are working on that by meeting neighbors with dogs and getting them together. There are also dogs at both houses on either side, which he sees a few times a day. He had a dog friend with his previous family before they divorced. Since then he's been tied up in the back yard alone for much of the past two years. The ex-wife finally took charge of finding the dog a better home than the ex-husband was able to provide. (The wife had taken the smaller of the two dogs to her townhouse, where rules only allow one dog.) So I think he's getting out primarily to meet other dogs. And to run - he's a border collie mix.
He is walked at least twice a day for 20-50 minutes each time on varying routes. The weather being so nice this weekend, I got out my bike to try him running beside me and we both loved it and it really gave him the kind of workout he needs. (Unfortunately, the snow is coming...) My husband grew up with dogs, but this is my first dog and I've still got to learn how to keep him busy and challenged, I admit. I'm on a list of border collie owners, to learn more about keeping him challenged. When we went to Lowe's today to get the paraphernalia to secure the fence, the saleswoman who came to help us turned out to be a border collie owner and trainer and gave me lots of good ideas for both securing the fence and entertaining the dog.
The barbed wire idea is not something we want to do, because of the potential of it hurting the pets and the kids. The cement under the edge of the fence is a good idea, but the current location of the fence is not where it is going to stay. We have a huge, deep back yard, but only fenced a portion closest to the back of the house for the time being. There is an above ground pool in the yard, and it does have a fenced deck with a locked gate, but we felt it safest for the kids while they are small to have a fence between the house and the pool. When finances permit, and the kids are older, we will eventually pull out this chain link perimeter and fence the whole yard with a nice wood fence - and cement under the edges! We have done paving stones under all the gates, and will do cement blocks or whatever along the fence bottom if the current fix doesn't hold, but it's a pretty good length of fence and will likely require the delivery of a pallet or two, so we're hoping we won't have to do that.
Thanks again for helpful ideas.
-Karen-
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