Does the body feel a shock on a GFIC protected circuit?

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Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather. Without using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and the costly tank will likely be damaged too. These heaters are plugged into an AC outlet and submerged in the water. If a break in the cord or short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals, and this used to be common on farms.
I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body. He fell, but was still stuck to the tank. Luckily I saw this happening outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25 feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years later. The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced all outlets that these tank heaters are used. I even made up some plug in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to a regular outlet. Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for a one time use.
If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely died. Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords. Damaging all of these things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the animal. That's where the GFI comes in. I have never lost any animals, yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed completely in half. At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what matters most. (even if they are stupid <lol>).
But I've noticed a pattern. It seems that once they chew a cord, they never do it again. This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????
Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a cord again.....
Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board. That stops them for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again. Yet, when they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a cord again.
Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are barefoot, or bare hooved) In other words they are grounded. This is the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill them). Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage. Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?
Of course, I'm glad they do. At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast if they did it over and ober.....
Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times.... At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to ride too. I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.
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On 1/28/2012 6:24 AM, snipped-for-privacy@myplace.com wrote:

working properly. I wouldn't recommend testing for live current by putting yourself in harms way, as the failure rate of GFCI receptacles is pretty high

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On Jan 28, 5:24 am, snipped-for-privacy@myplace.com wrote:

There is a simple test you can do with an unfolded paper clip or a hair pin.
Hhmmmmm............ No. Never mind!
RonB :o)
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-snip-

-snip-
That will test for a short, not a Ground Fault. I think urinating on the outlet is the proper way to test for GFI.
I could be wrong.
Jim
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That sounds like a bad idea. So, what happens when on the 1 of 100, you find a defective GFCI (probably made by FPE Stabloc) and you end up whizzing on about 50 amps or so of AC current? Let me guess, you yell "Hot dog!"
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

That will test for a short, not a Ground Fault. I think urinating on the outlet is the proper way to test for GFI.
I could be wrong.
Jim
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

I had 2 plug-in GFCIs fail on me, one in the off position, the other (its revised replacement) in the on position. The replacement's replacement has been fine for 10 years, and I do press its test button before each use. Also I've twice been protected from shock by other GFCIs.
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:46:51 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

That would depend on penis size :)
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It for sure will test an electric fence. I learned that at about 6yoa when my brother had me test one.
Harry K
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Have you considered they might be bored out of thier minds, and looking for something to do? How about put some thing in the stalls, for them to do? Maybe you can hire "Only In America, Larry the cable guy does....." to find a way to provide entertainment, during the horses off hours?
Lets hope the horses don't figure out how to putsh the reset button while another horse is chewing the cords?
I'm not all sure how practical this is, but maybe a circulating pump from the stock water, back to some where indoors. And have an indirect heater from a fuel fired boiler, instead of using expensive electric filament heat.
Chewing on wooden rails? Sure sounds like boredom, to me. Or, teething.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Livestock need water in winter as much as in warm weather. Without using tank heaters, the water will freeze. the animal wont get water and the costly tank will likely be damaged too. These heaters are plugged into an AC outlet and submerged in the water. If a break in the cord or short in the heating coil develops, you can end up with dead animals, and this used to be common on farms.
I have horses, and I nearly learned the hard way years ago when one horse could not let go of a tank as the AC surged thru his body. He fell, but was still stuck to the tank. Luckily I saw this happening outside my window, and ran out the door barefooted on freezing snow, and ripped the power cord out of the outlet which was on a pole about 25 feet from my door. The horse survived and is still alive some 10 years later. The next day I bought a whole case of GFI outlets and replaced all outlets that these tank heaters are used. I even made up some plug in ones by putting a GFI into a waterproof electrical box with a cord to a regular outlet. Those are for when I need to plug in a tank heater for temporary, and dont feel the need to replace the built in outlet for a one time use.
If it was not for these GFI outlets, several horses may have likely died. Some of them seem to like to chew on strange things, like wooden fences, plastic feed bowls, and power cords. Damaging all of these things tends to piss me off, but chewing on cords can and will kill the animal. That's where the GFI comes in. I have never lost any animals, yet each winter at least one tank heater cord gets chewed up or chewed completely in half. At around $50 a piece for these heaters, that really makes me quite angered, but knowing the animal is ok, is what matters most. (even if they are stupid <lol>).
But I've noticed a pattern. It seems that once they chew a cord, they never do it again. This makes me wonder if they do indeed get a shock for a very small milli-second, before the GFI trips????????
Horses are intelligent, but there must be some reason they dont chew a cord again.....
Heck, if they chew on the fence boards, I paint cayenne or jalepeno pepper powder (mixed with mineral oil) on the board. That stops them for awhile, but they seem to always try chewing wood again. Yet, when they chew off a power cord, I have never seen that horse or pony chew a cord again.
Somehow I cant get myself to grab a GFI protected hot wire while standing barefoot on wet ground (remember, horses, cattle, etc are barefoot, or bare hooved) In other words they are grounded. This is the reason electric fences keep them contained (but that wont kill them). Therefore the question arises, while the GFI trips extremely fast, there must be a brief moment that they feel the voltage. Otherwise why would they stop chewing cords?
Of course, I'm glad they do. At $50 a pop, the cost would add up fast if they did it over and ober.....
Yea, I do my best to run the cords thru steel pipe, and try all sorts of things like that, but if they want to chew the cord, they will pull the heater out of the water and pull it out of the pipe, sometimes unplug it, and .... well, they can just be a major pain in the ass at times.... At the same time, they are the best pets anyone can have, and fun to ride too. I would not want to lose any of them from electrocution.
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:01:46 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

Get a recirculaing tank type engine heater and plumb in hose fittings at top and bottom of tank (where the Horse cannot reach it to chew off the hose) They work well and automatically circulate the water.
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On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:01:46 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

This is not in a stall, this is outdoors in the pasture. The old tank heaters put a metal spiral, like a spring, over the cords, but like everything they make the shit cheap these days. Yea, I wish there was a cheaper way to keep their water from freezing. My electric bill doubles or worse during the winter.
You are correct about the boredom regarding the wood chewing. In summer they get to hunt around for their favorite grass or weeds. In winter they can only eat hay and stare at snow. Hell, snow bores me too.... Maybe I need to get WIFI enabled laptop computers for the horses so they can look for sexy pictures of other horses of the opposite sex :)
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On 1/29/2012 9:47 AM, snipped-for-privacy@myplace.com wrote:

let me know if you figger out a way to keep that water water without electricity. We have three 1500w heaters going ourselves. And we're on a COOP power company. electric bill sucks.
--
Steve Barker
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Seems like ought to be some way to use propane, to provide a bit of heat.
Electric circulatiing pump, and a boiler of some kind. Boiler that won't light your hay on fire. But, it's only needed in winter.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
let me know if you figger out a way to keep that water water without electricity. We have three 1500w heaters going ourselves. And we're on a COOP power company. electric bill sucks.
--
Steve Barker
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Heat pumps will more efficiently heat the water than straight thermal heating, right?
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On 1/29/2012 3:54 PM, Robert Macy wrote:

seems a little elaborate for a horse tank. Got a link to one that costs less than $40 and pulls less than 1000w?
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Steve Barker
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:38:37 -0600, Steve Barker

Recirculating engine heater in Canada : http://answers.canadiantire.ca/answers/9045/product/0303294P/no-zerostart-tank-circulation-engine-heater-questions-answers/questions.htm
USA: http://www.warehouseautoparts.com/Specialty_Line/Kat/kats_circulating_tank_heater_12010_12050_13080_13100_13150_13200_13222.htm
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On 1/30/12 12:02 AM, snipped-for-privacy@myplace.com wrote:

Have you tried these to keep the plug ins dry? http://tinyurl.com/8xra2k9 The local farm store carries these. I haven't tried them so can't say how useful they'd be.
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:02:48 -0600, Dean Hoffman

I've seen them online. No local stores carry them around here. From what I've seen, they're not cheap. At least $5 each, and I'd probably need close to 20 of them for all my stock tank heaters, cords for battery chargers/ engine heaters, etc. in the winter. It's not a huge investment, but I can buy a lot of tape for that price. Some of the connections I put on a few wraps of electrical tape in fall when I get the heaters hooked up, but as things get moved, changed, replaces, etc during the winter and I'm out in the cold, I dont always do things the right way. Normally each connector has a scrap of lumber under them. and maybe another piece on top. But as snow falls, and horses toss the heaters, and winds blow, nothing stays as it should. I've been trying to think of a way to make plug protectors out of something from the recycle bin. A 16oz plastic soda bottle was tried, (cutting a hole in the bottom), but the plugs wont fit thru the neck of the bottle.
If anyone has any suggestions for anything found in the recycle bin or trash, I'd appreciate the help. I have found that a scrap of some 1" pvc pipe (6 inches long, or more) is helpful. Not the best seal, but it does keep the snow from directly getting into the connections. Plus, some plugs wont fit in 1" pvc and require 1 1/4".
One other thing, I have been running some UF cable underground to some of the real common places I need power. Every summer I run a couple of them, but that's a lot of work digging..... especially since I need to dig at least a foot deep on the roadways. The reason being that when the ground is muddy, farm tractors can dig in pretty deep with their tire chains, not to mention washouts from heavy summer rains, and using road leveling equipment. It's a whole different matter to do this stuff on a farm, than on a city lawn. Going overhead is not always idead either. A hay wagon for example is 11 or 12 feet high, and needs to pass under those wires, and if one hay bale sticks up above the rim of the wagon, down comes a wire. Thus, all wires almost need to be at least 16 feet off the ground, and that means large poles and a lot of work, and expense. In the end, replacing a few extension cords every year is a bargain...... My biggest challenge is remembering to remove them when I plow snow. I DO TRY!!!! But as old age sets in, the memory is not so good anymore :)
Thanks
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You know, if you add about 30% ethyl alcohol to your stock water, you can change the freezing point, so that you don't need the heaters. The resulting mix will be bitter cold, but it will be liquid, down quite a ways below 32F. Of course, there may be other side effects, and the ethanol costs money. Unless you distill it yourself from mash.
Might not be a totally effective answer, of course.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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hey the horses might like that...
or you could insulate the tanks and slow down the heat loss and reduce but not eliminate the need for heat.
bury them in the ground so the horse can't tip them and help insulate them?
paint the inside black pick up a least a little solar heat?
are the heaters controlled by a thermostat so they heat the water only a bit above freezing??, no sense heating it up to 50 or 60F.
not an easy problem...
Mark
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