Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?

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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 05:38:28 +0000, Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

Just curious, what is the opinion for the following: crimping the connection, and THEN soldering it?
TTYL
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us:

Personally, I feel it to be OK, but as far as specs go (and they are many times set forth by the manufacturers then adopted by standards organizations) I think it is still nix.
The crimp connectors wet very well. Most fresh wire wets very well. The connector, after crimping, is very tight if done correctly. Adding solder would heat it up, causing its inside diameter to expand a bit, but it shouldn't change the integrity of the crimp.
If you are having trouble getting a crimp connector on tight, either the connector is not matched to the wire size, or the wrong crimp die was used, or the connector is cheap chinese crap, and only LOOKS like a real connector.
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Gave

that would be good, especially in a corrosive environment.
RE the govt training courses on the issue, one of the primary features one notices with government is incompetence, followed closely by insanity and bad practices. Thank god very few industrial controls manufacturers adopt such loopy practices.
Phil Scott

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On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:10:49 -0800, "Phil Scott"

I suggest that you contact AMP or MOLEX and ask them.
Your remarks about the military show a lack of knowledge as well.
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Gave : >> us: : >> : >>>In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS : >>>rather than a : >>>written rule? : >>> : >>>Pop : >> : >> Absolutely not. : >> : >> Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad : >> practice for any : >> compression type connection. : > : > Just curious, what is the opinion for the following: : > crimping the : > connection, and THEN soldering it? : : that would be good, especially in a corrosive environment. : : RE the govt training courses on the issue, one of the primary : features one notices with government is incompetence, followed : closely by insanity and bad practices. Thank god very few : industrial controls manufacturers adopt such loopy practices.
Such a blanket statement, although true in some areas, is far from true as a blanket, plus exposes the fact that you have no real familiarity with the subject at hand. Not only that, but if you think "industrial controls manufacturer" don't and haven't used things like soldering techinques and methodologies, you're going to be grossly wrong in your overal picture you're trying to paint. You, along with several others have taken a good question asked by one who only needed a simple but reliable answer and have turned it into a crapfest of who knows what about what, and very few of the comments have had any real basis in fact, let along related to the OP's quest.
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Gave us:

You are one lost mother fucker, boy.
There have been several posts which are based on FACT. Just not many if not any of yours.
You deride him for his comments on the military, but you essentially said the same thing with your "open to interpretation" post. It was from that point on that YOU discontinued actually speaking on the topic, and started acting like a fucking wussy.
Go back and read the posts. There are many that have it right, and many that have it wrong, and in case you are still lost, this group is for exactly what you claim we are all doing wrong.
Usenet is a crapfest and that is why your lame ass is in the barrel.
And the thread is NOT off topic, dipshit.
I'll say it again. Crimped on, compression style connectors should NOT be soldered. Not after the connector is crimped on, nor the wire before it is inserted.
Call AMP or MOLEX and they'll explain it to your ass as well. You seem to think no one in the groups here know what they are talking about.
You're a goddamned loser if you think you can get away with that baby bullshit.
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You might find these links interesting Roy.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Crimped+and+soldered+wire+connectors&btnG=Google+Search
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brazed connections in those locations)
Phil Scott
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Sometimes they should be soldered after they are crimped.

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Wouldn't a pressure connection conform to the flatter shape just as well, once the solder melted? The ones I am familiar with use a spring action for the pressure.
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What happens is that even after making a nice tight compression connection on a stranded wire that has been "tinned", one will find that even after a few hours, the pressure on the wire is reduced.
Solder is a soft alloy. It "creeps". There is no way around it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_%28deformation%29
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:38:26 GMT, "Long Ranger"

It doesn't even have to get hot. Solder "creeps", period. It creeps faster under pressure stress. That is the nature of soft metals.
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Gave us:

Well there you have it then. When I said it was debatable I meant that there were quite a few in my experience that think tinning is the be-all, and end-all for copper connections under any circumstance. I have often argued against it, and I wasn't even cognizant of the "creep" phenomena until now. I had a boss for quite a few years that swore by it, and even tinned 250KCM generator leads in a pot of melted solder. Those were sure fun.
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A gas tight crimped fitting doesn't need solder, or pass standards with solder added either.
My standard is likely a mil standard, though I would think it is in the NEC as well.
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Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

Care to quote chapter and verse?
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren\'t no thin blue heroes and yet we aren\'t no blackguards to.
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:40:45 +0000, Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT wrote:

Of course not. It's *his* standard.
--
KEith


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You're a fucking retard, boy.
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On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 06:21:58 +0000, Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

Just pointing out what *you* said, kid.
--
Keith


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. In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into the crimped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail.. thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the military specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not the other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint (by wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not all controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends in solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors... the practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the reasons mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those are also pervasively common, especially in the electronics industry.)
.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Crimped+and+soldered+wire+connectors&btnG=Google+Search
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non crimped terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw head.... and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed connections in those locations)
Phil Scott Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)

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This is from The Canadian Electrical Code Rule 12-112 Conductor joints and splices (1) Unless made with solderless wire connectors,joints or spices in insulated conductors shall be soldered, but they shall first be made mechanically and electrically secure.
Rule 12-116 Termination of conductors (1) The portion of stranded conductors to be held by wire-binding terminals or solderless wire connectors shall have the strands confined so that there will be no stray strands to cause either short-circuits or grounds.
My Interpretation : Solder could be used to confine the strands!
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What part of "Unless made with solderless wire connectors" do you not understand?
http://m-w.com/dictionary/unless
The remark about exposed strands is so that assemblers and inspectors can keep vigilant about making sure that their strip lengths and insertion depths are kept tightly spec'd when using crimp style connectors.
http://m-w.com/dictionary/confined
It isn't something you "interpret". It IS something where you follow the instructions given you by an inspector that DOES know what is going on. You obviously do not.
Sometimes I think that some of you "interpret" people need to be "confined" so that there will be no stray bullshit spewed into a technical newsgroup.
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