Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?

[Pop]

: Gave us: : : >

: >"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message : >news: [e-mail]... : >: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:54:33 GMT, "Long Ranger" : >: Gave us: : >: : >: >

: >: >> : > "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in : >: >> message : >: >> : > news: [e-mail]... : >: >> : >> On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:55:00 -0600, Bud-- : >: >> : >: >> : >> Gave us: : >: >> : >>

: >: >> : >>>The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded : >wire : >: >> in a pressure : >: >> : >>>connection. : >: >> : >>

: >: >> : >>

: >: >> : >> Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be : >soldered. : >: >> : >

: >: >> : > I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for : >that? : >: >> : > (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of : >this : >: >> : > prohibition...) : >: >> : : >: >> : It goes back to depending on the solder for the : >connection. The : >: >> solder is : >: >> : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, : >it : >: >> gets loose. You : >: >> : are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the : >: >> connector. : >: >> : >

: >: >> : >

: >: >> : : >: >> : : >: >>

: >: >> In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS : >rather : >: >> than a written rule? : >: >>

: >: >> Pop : >: >>

: >: >>Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but : >that I tended : >: >>to agree with it. : >: >

: >: : >: Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. : >

: >If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, : >you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be : >decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific : >case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on : >the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn : >makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an : >"acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and : >regulations. : >

: >Pop : >

: Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped : connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. : There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC : standards and practices. : : It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". : : The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. : The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between : military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, : yet they are concise enough to make your statement false.

Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're a closed mind.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:14:56 -0500, repatch Gave us:

Personally, I feel it to be OK, but as far as specs go (and they are many times set forth by the manufacturers then adopted by standards organizations) I think it is still nix.

The crimp connectors wet very well. Most fresh wire wets very well. The connector, after crimping, is very tight if done correctly. Adding solder would heat it up, causing its inside diameter to expand a bit, but it shouldn't change the integrity of the crimp.

If you are having trouble getting a crimp connector on tight, either the connector is not matched to the wire size, or the wrong crimp die was used, or the connector is cheap chinese crap, and only LOOKS like a real connector.

[Pop]

: Gave us: : : >

: >"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in message : >news: [e-mail]... : >: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:00:19 GMT, "Pop" : >

: >: Gave us: : >: : >: >In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : >: >than a written rule? : >: >

: >: >Pop : >: : >: Absolutely not. : >: : >: Solder creep is a well known phenomena. It is a bad practice : >for any : >: compression type connection. : >

: >You obviously don't know what "interpretation" means w/r to rules : >& regs. : : You obviously do not know the difference between rules and : regulations which people have the ability to "interpret" and rules and : regulations which are set in stone, and not open to "interpretation". : : ANY inspector that thinks that it is HIS or HER duly "authorized" : right to bend, meld or "interpret" the rules is an idiot that doesn't : know how to ASK his superior for an answer when he or she gets stuck : on an issue. ALL circumstances in the industry are covered, and NONE : of them are mutable through individual interpretation and ANY : inspector that thinks they are is not now, nor never was a real : inspector. : : > Interpretation by different authorized" people are : >exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same : >question : : Actually, that should read: : : "stupidity by different promoted past their level of competency twits : are exactly why you will get seemingly opposing answers to the same : question..." : : > when it's answered from the rules & regs. If you really : >know mil-specs, then you know that. : : "If you really know mil specs" then you'd know that that is not true : in any way shape or form. NOTHING is left open to interpretation, by : inspectors or otherwise.

Bingo! That proves you have zero, nada idea about what you're talking about and cannot have any but very peripheral actual experience in the areas you claim. You stepped in it that time big time. Your'e an obvious blow-hard closed minded idiot with a propensity for danger. Good luck.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On 1 Feb 2006 12:56:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Gave us:

Soldering Aluminum is not easy to start with, and requires special solders and usually higher temperatures.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On 3 Feb 2006 11:35:47 -0800, "Harry Muscle" Gave us:

Their appearance varies from maker to maker. Most have an insulating sleeve on them, but they can be bought without it as well.

Screw terminals that have a removable screw can have "ring lugs" used on them. Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a "spade lug" used on them. The type with the forked, open front section. Clamp lugs can use bare wire, or a "pin lug" for assemblies that cannot have wire shards around.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:20:42 GMT, "Pop" Gave us:

I feel sorry for you and the rest of Usenet with the way your sad news client handles quoting.

It is probably a good news client that your retarded ass screwed up with stupid characters to place in front of quoted material that are unrecognized by the rest of the REAL world.

What else are you going to do today that is totally retarded?

By the way, your argument was baseless and free of useful debate content, just like we knew it would be.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:23:51 GMT, "Pop" Gave us:

You're an idiot.

You have proven nothing. Abso-f****ng-lutely nothing, in fact.

Bullshit. I have taught soldering. I have been an inspector in several different departments. I have done compliance engineering.

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

You continue to make obscure bullshit references without actually pontificating on a damned thing. Has that problem dogged you all your life?

You're an idiot that has yet to make a single valid argument. All you have done is spout nonsense from the moment you found out that someone didn't agree with you. Par for the course with a dolt like you.

Luck isn't even a factor, dipshit.

[Long Ranger]

O,K., So Roy is miffed that we don't bow down to his "superior" intellect. He shows us how histerical he can be when he gets his bone and starts to chew it. Quite like a bitch dog, and all we wanted to do was examine the bone, not take it away! Comes right out and spouts off like a cry-baby, and proceeds to show his lack of maturity by getting emotional and using foul language against someone who has conducted his narrative in a gentelman's fashion. Pop has, in fact, shown a great deal of wisdom and accurately describes what happens to nearly every rule and regulation when the human factor is involved. This is particularly true in government circles. I agree that a regulation usually has a fairly rigid definition, but the code itself states that it is "subject to interpretation by the authority having jurisdiction". All in all, Roy may be factually correct, but a man like pop will get down the road on less fuel, because he has a perspective of what is, and not what some immature folks think "ought to be".

[Long Ranger]

Screw terminals that have a "captivated" screw need a

By far my favorite line from this knave.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:38:02 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us:

No. I am miffed that someone that perhaps at one time had a position anywhere near an that of an inspector makes a claim to the effect that "we get to read the guidelines, and then adjust them to our liking". Not so. Not in ANY industry or for ANY standard I know of.

You're a goddamned idiot... and a troll as well. Chew on that, asswipe.

I take it back. You are a pathetic, adolescent retard.

Just the facts, baby! -- Kojak

You're a f****ng schoolyard mentality idiot. Even your pokes and lames are f****ng retarded.

You think your tone changes anything about what you retarded ass is saying right now? It matters not if you cuss now or never, you are STILL the same asshole you were when you started this troll baby bullshit, boy.

"Pop" went off like a f****ng loon at the very notion that someone disagreed with him... AND he was and still is wrong, as are you.

You're a f****ng E-1 grade twit.

No shit, dipshit. Electronics, and electrical regulations are NOT open to negotiation or interpretation by idiots that are too incompetent to make valid assessments about the physics involved in a mechanical system, much less an electrical one.

You will not fund that in military or jdec or eic electrical acceptance standards.

The NEC can say whatever they want, but in my experience the persons placed in those position typically have half a brain. Their "interpretation" matches that of every "authorized" person that ever came down the pike.

All in all, you're a goddamned retarded troll fucktard that wants to stir shit. Well, guess what, dumbass? You ARE that shit, and you just got stirred.

Bullshit. I used to build engines too. Racing engines. Pop doesn't stand a chance in *that* competition either.

Your assessments are about as valid as anything else you ever contributed to the group... nil. You are unsolicited, unqualified, unprofessional, and rate somewhere below E-1.

I could guess at standards and get them right more often then he could get them after making his "interpretations"... or you for that matter, boy.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 02:57:22 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us:

Bugger off, troll dipshit!

[Long Ranger]

Roy continues on in the same childish vein. I could dissect this some more, but the word "immature" would sum it up nicely, and he ain't worth the effort. Done reading such crap. I came here to rub shoulders with some intellect. Goodbye little boy.

[electrician]

First, I do not have a copy of the current Canadian Electrical Code. I would call a Provincial or local building official for a proper answer. But in the USA.... Using solder on stranded building wire used in building electrical systems is not a normal trade practice. First, it is not economical, and secondly, there are too many different methods and materials that can be used to solder. Soldering can be more damaging than helpful if not done properly. For instance wicking can cause wires to become brittle and permit breakage. There are many alloys of solder some requiring the use of resin core others the use of acid for soldering. Soldering, in short, introduces a whole range of variables that cannot be controlled in the field. But the main reason it is not done is it simply takes too much time and is not necessary. For splicing, wire nuts are commonly used. For terminations, buy receptacles and switches that are listed for use with stranded wire. If you have to use solid wire for terminations, then attach a pigtail then wire nut the solid wire to the stranded wire. Better yet, replace the stranded wire with solid. The NEC Section requiring that the listing instructions be followed is 110.3(B). This has been in the (USA) National Electrical Code for as long as I can remember.

References:

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. 110.14 Electrical Connections. Because of different characteristics of dissimilar metals, devices such as pressure terminal or pressure splicing connectors and soldering lugs shall be identified for the material of the conductor and shall be properly installed and used. Conductors of dissimilar metals shall not be intermixed in a terminal or splicing connector where physical contact occurs between dissimilar conductors (such as copper and aluminum, copper and copper-clad aluminum, or aluminum and copper-clad aluminum), unless the device is identified for the purpose and conditions of use. Materials such as solder, fluxes, inhibitors, and compounds, where employed, shall be suitable for the use and shall be of a type that will not adversely affect the conductors, installation, or equipment. FPN: Many terminations and equipment are marked with a tightening torque. (A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors. Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:08:30 GMT, "Long Ranger" Gave us:

You didn't "dissect" anything to begin with, you f***ed in the head RETARD!

You seem to be making an effort to troll me fairly well. Fuck off, dipshit.

You wrote the crap. I wrote what is, and ever shall be.

You need to grow several feet then, you adolescent troll punk.

Hahahahaha... you're a f****ng joke.

[Pop]

Thanks for the post, 'lec', that's good info.

[Roy L. Fuchs]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:00:54 GMT, "Pop" Gave us:

Yeah, it essentially states that you are wrong.

Oh yeah, the TOFU was retarded as well.

Don't know what TOFU is?

about a third of the way down...

So on top of being a miffed idiot because someone pointed out how wrong you were, you also are a retard about Usenet posting protocols and conventions. Why am I not surprised?

[Keith]

Of course not. It's *his* standard.

[Art Deco]

So Numby, you seem to have a certain effect on other people. Why is that?

[Art Deco]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

I present the world's most highest intellect -- Numby Genius, Esq.

[Art Deco]

Wow, you sure told him off, Numby.