Does coating stranded copper wire with solder cause any issues or break any codes?

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Are you talking about twisting, tinning, and using a wire nut, or skipping the wire nut? If skipping the nut, then I don't see it as a proper joint.
I twisted a #8 with two #12s and didn't think it looked particularly stable, so I soldered them before putting a wire nut on; but would never have considered not using the nut.
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: > Long Ranger wrote: : >> The code says you can't make a connection that depends entirely on : >> solder. It has to be a compression connection. Screws, bolting, clamping : >> crimping etc. It's O.K. to solder after it's tight. I have heard of : >> failed inspections because someone tinned stranded wire, then secured it : >> in a solderless lug. The reasoning being that if it gets hot, the solder : >> flows out, and it is then loose.That may be debatable, but I lean toward : >> agreement on it. : > The NEC says "electrically and mechanically secure". My understanding is : > that solid wires can stil be twisted then soldered as was the practice : > before wirenuts appeared. : > : > ---------------------- : > If tightly twisted wire was minimally tinned I would think the solder : > would hold the strands in place and the stress of clamping would be borne : > almost entirely by the copper. Do you still get cold flow? : > : Are you talking about twisting, tinning, and using a wire nut, or skipping : the wire nut? If skipping the nut, then I don't see it as a proper joint. : : I twisted a #8 with two #12s and didn't think it looked particularly stable, : so I soldered them before putting a wire nut on; but would never have : considered not using the nut. : :
I've done that, too. In fact, I did our whole house in Chgo that way. Lucked out and got a factory's worth of stranded wire on spools for free just as I was prepping to rewire. And yes, it passed inspection easily, first time, with only a comment about a power strip I left plugged in downstairs.
Properly soldered, that would work. If you know how to do that, great. But if anyone thinks a solder joint is "good" because it looks nice and shiny and smooth, then go back to school because that wire nut's going to loosen up. Not many electricians know how to solder a joint that would accept a wire nut reliably (or any other similar fastening metod), and it would also require the metal spring type wire nut to be reliable. Something has to penetrate the solder coat to put pressure on the copper, not just on the solder. It's not as easy to accomplish for the inexperienced as one may think. Then, if they do get a good solder joint, they forget to use a heat sink and the insulation melts or burns on them.
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Pop wrote:

I wouldn't solder a connection then use a wire nut. My experience is that wire nuts are reliable when used within the manufacturer's range of wire combinations. And they have not been tested on soldered connections.
Twisted solid wire that is mechanically secure and then soldered was the standard method for making connections for many years before wire nuts. I have seen only 2 failed joints, both because the solder did not bond to one wire. As far as I know that is still NEC acceptable (but I wouldn't advocate doing it).
The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded wire in a pressure connection.
bud--
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Gave us:

Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be soldered.
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I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for that? (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of this prohibition...)
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It goes back to depending on the solder for the connection. The solder is holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, it gets loose. You are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the connector.

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: >> Gave us: : >> : >>>The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded wire in a pressure : >>>connection. : >> : >> : >> Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be soldered. : > : > I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for that? : > (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of this : > prohibition...) : : It goes back to depending on the solder for the connection. The solder is : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, it gets loose. You : are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the connector. : > : > : :
In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather than a written rule?
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:54:33 GMT, "Long Ranger"

Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice.
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: >> : >> Gave us: : >> : >> : >> : >>>The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded wire : >> in a pressure : >> : >>>connection. : >> : >> : >> : >> : >> : >> Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be soldered. : >> : > : >> : > I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for that? : >> : > (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of this : >> : > prohibition...) : >> : : >> : It goes back to depending on the solder for the connection. The : >> solder is : >> : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, it : >> gets loose. You : >> : are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the : >> connector. : >> : > : >> : > : >> : : >> : : >> : >> In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS rather : >> than a written rule? : >> : >> Pop : >> : >>Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but that I tended : >>to agree with it. : > : : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice.
If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and regulations.
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Gave us:

Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC standards and practices.
It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation".
The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, yet they are concise enough to make your statement false.
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: >: >> : >> Gave us: : >: >> : >> : >: >> : >>>The question I asked was for a single tinned stranded : >wire : >: >> in a pressure : >: >> : >>>connection. : >: >> : >> : >: >> : >> : >: >> : >> Stranded wire in a pressure connection cannot be : >soldered. : >: >> : > : >: >> : > I am not doubting you, but can you give a reference for : >that? : >: >> : > (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was unaware of : >this : >: >> : > prohibition...) : >: >> : : >: >> : It goes back to depending on the solder for the : >connection. The : >: >> solder is : >: >> : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If it gets hot, : >it : >: >> gets loose. You : >: >> : are depending on the solder to hold the pressure of the : >: >> connector. : >: >> : > : >: >> : > : >: >> : : >: >> : : >: >> : >: >> In other words, it's an interpretation of the standardS : >rather : >: >> than a written rule? : >: >> : >: >> Pop : >: >> : >: >>Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was debateable, but : >that I tended : >: >>to agree with it. : >: > : >: : >: Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted practice. : > : >If you become more familiar with rules & regulations gvt wise, : >you'll learn that there are many, many cases which can only be : >decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a specific : >case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes depend on : >the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which in turn : >makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been an : >"acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the rules and : >regulations. : > : >Pop : > : Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion into a crimped : connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been acceptable. : There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the military and NEC : standards and practices. : : It is NOT about any form of "inspector's interpretation". : : The electronics industry, above all, is not of that nature either. : The guidelines have been set for years and the differences between : military, industrial and commercial practice are not all that varied, : yet they are concise enough to make your statement false.
Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're a closed mind.
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Gave us:

I feel sorry for you and the rest of Usenet with the way your sad news client handles quoting.
It is probably a good news client that your retarded ass screwed up with stupid characters to place in front of quoted material that are unrecognized by the rest of the REAL world.
What else are you going to do today that is totally retarded?
By the way, your argument was baseless and free of useful debate content, just like we knew it would be.
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Slagging matches so piss me off in usenet posting.
Life is too short to be caught up reading about some fools' gripes with another in the middle of a serious discussion.
Makes it sound like Parliament. Part of the reason the country is run by lawyers methinks.
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On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:25:43 -0000, "Billy H"

So ask the retarded bastards why they jumped on me for making a perfectly good, technical point.
If you jump, I will jump back. That's all there is to it.
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Gave us:

And nobody apologises for making fools of themselves in public
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On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 18:58:26 -0000, "Billy H"

Including you, with your "I crossed this to yada yada yada group, where you quoted the entire 110 line post... again.
If you want to be so conformal, why don't you learn a little about this forum called Usenet that you have decided to invade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt
Otherwise, you aren't any better than anyone else, and particularly not any better than anyone you deride here.
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Gave us:

It was a totally relevant cross posting, why you didn't reply with what you said earlier is beyond me, it'd maybe educate any wannaba lawyers in there some.
Anyway if I carry on like this I'll be more of a hypocrite than I laready am.
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message Gave us:

Just for the record, that was a form of apology for cross posting your message.
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On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:27:37 +0000, Billy H wrote:

Ignore Fuchs. If you challenge his "perfection" he'll simply slither away and you'll feel dirty in the morning.
--
Keith

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