Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape?

Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape? After reading the thread on here about the peeling tape, I was wondering if it was the paper stuff?
I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming loose. Then I found the mesh tape, which is some sort of plastic material and comes with a self adhesive. That is all I have used since. That stuff dont peel. I think that paper was a poor product right from the start. But I guess that is all they had years ago.
I dont do much sheet rock work, but I intend to do some this winter to get rid of some ugly paneling in a room, and I want to do it the best way. That's if I dont put up the sheetrock myself, and hire a company to tape it. I've always hated taping sheetrock, not to mention the mess it makes all over the house with dust. I think the pros have some sort of method to vacuum up the dust as they sand it. I'd rather pay them, than have to spend weeks cleaning the house afterwards.
Either way, I dont want that paper tape. Most of it dont adhere well, because the holes in it are too small for the joint compound to form a bond. That mesh seems much more practical.
On the other hand, I wish they made sheetrock that did not have the indented edges. I'd probably just put up the sheetrock and just put a thin molding over the seams.
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snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com wrote:

If you apply it properly, there's nothing wrong with paper tape. If you don't put mud under the tape and attempt to just put mud over the top, it will peel off.
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snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com says...

You need to put mud on the seam BEFORE applying the tape. You're not supposed to try to squeeze it through those holes. Personally, while I agree that the mesh is far easier to use, I find that the paper makes for a less crack-prone seam. I'm sure it's a flaw in my technique (I'm not a pro), but there it is.

We definitely disagree on that point. Butt joints drive me nuts!
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| Does anyone still use that PAPER sheetrock tape? | After reading the thread on here about the peeling tape, I was wondering | if it was the paper stuff? | | I used that junk years ago, and always had problems with it coming | loose. Then I found the mesh tape, which is some sort of plastic | material and comes with a self adhesive. That is all I have used since.
Me, too. I wouldn't use paper tape. It doesn't allow for enough contact through it, with the result that the top layer can pop off in a piece. The same problem happens with the corner beads meant for compound. They're prone to popped off pieces of compound if the corner is hit.
I always use mesh tape and plastering beads. (The mesh type.) I then always use Durabond 90 for the first coat. I've found that it's as tough as plaster of paris while still having some flexibility. After that the regular compound only needs to do the job of smoothing, without needing to provide strength, which it was never designed for. I think most drywallers who do it fulltime use the paper tape, though I'm not certain. I don't understand why, other than maybe saving a few pennies. I've seen lots of paper seams split. I don't think I've ever seen a mesh-taped seam split. If I have to paint over new drywalling done by such a contractor I always use phenoseal on the inside corners after priming, to avoid ugly cracks later.
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Mayayana wrote:

Unfortunately for most of the respondents opinions , paper tape IS superior to any mesh WHEN PROPERLY APPLIED . Apparently most of you can't do that . Your loss . The only place I use mesh is on ceiling joints , and only those that are joints over a framing member .
--
Snag



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| Unfortunately for most of the respondents opinions , paper tape IS | superior to any mesh WHEN PROPERLY APPLIED .
You don't say on what basis you make that claim. What do you feel is superior about paper tape, other than perhaps price? And why would you use only straight compound when you can get a far stronger result with durabond?
I've been doing drywall, off and on, since 1980 and have dealt with a lot of old drywall. I usually do the drywall myself unless there's enough new construction to justify getting a plasterer. (I've never actually called in drywallers. Only plasterers.) I don't remember ever seeing any problems with mesh tape other than cases where it wasn't fully covered over. I have seen a lot of faulty, popping paper tape jobs. I've also seen a lot of water damage, which tends to curl and pop the paper tape, requiring more repair than if it had been mesh tape.
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Several points need making here:
1. Most drywallers and DIY'ers both really don't know what the purpose of the joint tape is. It's there to carry any tension across the joint without the joint breaking.
You see, drywall is actually fairly rigid considering what it's made of, and that's entirely because paper is very strong in tension. Try folding up a piece of paper and pulling on it hard enough that it stretches until it breaks, and you'll see what I mean. So, for drywall to bend, then the paper on either the front or back has to stretch, and since it takes a lot of force to stretch paper, drywall is really quite rigid.
(This is exactly the difference between ordinary concrete and "reinforced" concrete. A reinforced concrete slab will have steel rebars embedded in the concrete near both it's upper surface and it's lower surface. The idea here is that for the concrete slab to bend, the steel rebars on either the top or bottom have to stretch. Steel is very strong in tension, and it's those steel rebars that make "reinforced" concrete slabs so much stronger than concrete poured without any rebar, or with only a single layer of rebar in the middle of the slab's thickness (where the steel rebars will do nothing to help prevent the slab from bending.))
The problem is at the joints. If a wall bends outwards (so that the face paper of the drywall stretches) then unlike the face paper of drywall, the joint compound over the joints will crack before it stretches as far as it needs to, and so the purpose of ANY drywall tape is to carry the tension over that drywall joint so that no cracking or breaking occurs.
Now, paper drywall joint tape isn't nearly as strong as the face paper on drywall because it isn't nearly as thick. Fiberglass joint tape is stronger than paper tape, but being that it's at the bottom of the contour, it's not in the best location to carry the tension across the joint. Ideally, you'd want to glue the same kind of face paper they use on drywall over the joints so that the paper is equally strong everywhere, but that's neither practical nor attractive. But, that's what would give you the strongest drywall installation.
Using drywall tape on inside corners doesn't make any sense at all from an engineering perspective. Paper in that location won't do anything to prevent the joint compound from cracking if the joint flexes or moves, and the paper won't do anything to prevent that joint from flexing.
2. Don't let butt joints be a pain in your butt.
Most home centers now sell "curved trowels". At first glance, a curved trowel looks identical to an ordinary plastering trowel. It's not until you set it down on a flat surface or sight along it's edge that you notice that the blade on it is curved. Specifically, it arches upward in the middle by about 1/8 of an inch:
http://tinyurl.com/nyel88r
Since you hold the trowel at a comfortable angle to the wall when spreading joint compound, a curved trowel allows a total newbie to spread a perfectly symmetrical mound of joint compound over a butt joint that's no thicker than about 5/64ths of an inch thick in the middle. This is plenty thick enough to bury fiberglass mesh drywall tape in, but not thick enough to create a noticable "bump" on the wall over the joints, not even with wall mounted light fixtures. Years ago, it was rare to see curved trowels in home centers; you pretty well had to go to a drywall & plaster wholesaler to buy curved trowels, but now most hardware stores will carry them. They make finishing butt joints (where you don't have a contoured edge on both sides of the joint) an absolute breeze.
When my sister's basement got flooded, I helped her replace the water damaged drywall. We replaced the ruined drywall with Georgia Pacific Dens-Shield for water resistance, and my sister used my curved trowel to do all the butt joints where the Dens-Shield met the ordinary drywall. That was my sister's first time doing any kind of plastering work, and she has wall mounted light fixtures in her basement, and the job turned out perfect. You can't see any "bump" in the wall between the Dens-Shield below and the drywall above.
--
nestork


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says...

There are also a number of dust control compounds. The dust falls to the floor instead of becoming airborne. I've used it and it seems to work as advertised.
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> I think the pros have some sort

Just hold a trouble light in one hand and a screen sander in the other hand to sand down the joint compound. The sharp angle the light will be hitting the wall will exagerate the bumps and the valleys giving you a much better idea of where you have to add joint compound and where you have to sand it off to make the wall smoother.
Slip a green Scotchbrite pad under the sanding screen on your hand sander. The sanding dust will go through the sanding screen and fall out of it's edges through the Scotchbrite pad.
If you want, hold your vaccuum cleaner hose under your hand sander as you tap the hand sander against the wall to knock all the sanding dust out of the Scotchbrite pad. Use a 60 grit sanding screen so that you make fast progress, and the joint compound you sand off is in large enough hunks to fall directly to the floor without spending any time getting there. The vaccuum cleaner will collect 90 percent of the dust before it hits the floor.
Wipe the wall down with a dry rag or brush after you finish sanding, and then vaccuum up with a wet/dry shop style vaccuum cleaner fitted with a pleated paper filter. It will NOT take you even a day to vaccuum up, let alone "weeks". It's really not anywhere near as hard as you're making it sound.
Also, you should be aware that there are different kinds of joint compounds.
"Regular" or "Taping" joint compound has the most glue in it and is used for taping the joints. The glue in it makes it stick better to the wall and the tape to stick better to it, but that glue also makes it hard to sand smooth.
"Topping" or "Finish" joint compound is used for the 2nd and 3rd coats over the joints, and has the least amount of glue in it. That makes it very easy to sand smooth.
"All Purpose" is about half way between Regular and Finish. It can be used for both taping and finishing, and it's made mostly so that drywall contractors don't have to carry two pails around in their truck with them everywhere they go. They can do the whole job with only one compound.
Your best bet is to buy regular joint compound for your first coat (which you won't be sanding) and allow the compound to shrink as it dries. Then, use Finish joint compound for the 2nd and 3rd coats, which will be easy to sand smooth. And, hold a trouble light close to the wall so that you can see when the joints are smooth, or where they need more joint compound, or where you need to sand more joint compound off. When your wall looks "not too bad" when viewed under such critical lighting, it'll look perfect under normal lighting.
--
nestork


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On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 05:50:36 +0100, nestork

The pros hardly have to sand at all. The old german guy who did the taping in my daughter's basement laid it on so smooth that after a few swipes with his sponge hardly any sanding was required.

wafting about - Using a vacuum sander generates so much static you'd think you were standing in the middle of a lightning storm

Old Johann used setting compound for the first layer and to bed the tape. Sets up hard as stone in under 45 minutes and bonds the board together permanently. You don't want to have to sand that stuff. Then he layed on the all-purpose low dust compound with a 12" knife. A quick sand the next morning and another thin coat over top, a swipe with the damp sponge, and a final light sanding the next day and it was ready for paint. Three years later and you can't see the joints (or screws)
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snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com wrote:

I'm no drywall pro, but I end up doing a bit of it every year. I only use the fiberglass mesh joint tape and also only use the setting type 15 min compound. Crews doing big jobs may do ok with the pre-mix compound since they have so much to do before they are ready for another coat, but for smaller jobs the setting type lets you start and finish the job in the same day with ease. Similarly a pro crew on a large job might use paper tape and save a few bucks, but for a personal job the fiberglass mesh tape is superior and the cost irrelevant.
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