Works the same in logging. Soft spots logged in the winter when the ground's frozen, high, sandy stuff with pine in the summer. When the forest's really dense, an Iron Mule can't find a way to hit the ground for the roots. The call it "low impact" logging.
So, besides being a top-posting moron, you're also absolutely perfect, and have never, under any circumstances, for any reason, *EVER* hit dirt while cutting, eh?
Well, if I was in the business of selling branded "special" bar oil at twice the price of cheap motor oil I'd put that in my instruction manual too.
Well, if I was in the business of selling branded "special" bar oil at twice the price of cheap motor oil I'd put that in my instruction manual too.
Skipping the big long thread in the middle on this.
I have only ever put USED motor oil for my bar oil. I have 2 stihls that are about 20 and 13 years old respectfully. I have replaced the oil pumps in each saw once for 70~80 dollars Canadian, parts and labour each time. Each saw is expected to cut and rip about 60~75 cords of firewood each year. I do believe I have saved good amount of money over the last 20 years by using used motor oil and getting new pumps rather than using new motor oil or bar oil.
Well the bar oil is pretty damn expensive in Canada. prolly more like a 33 to 40 cents a day difference.
I cut firewood for a decent second income. I figure my work season, not including rainy days, when I just split or clean brush is 100 days a year. I spend about 30 days actually delivering to bring it up to 130. If I use my saws, (I use a smaller stihl bar and motor for smaller work) for those
100 days of work that 33 cents is 33 dollars for one year. I do believe I have been doing firewood at the same pace for 20 years, BUT for accuracy sake lets go down to 15 years. That 15 years = 495 dollars. I have spent about 160 in repairs to the oil pumps so my REAL savings is 335 dollars.
If I save 33 dollars a year on one aspect of my side project, imagine what saving 33 dollars a year on several aspects can amount too. I use gasoline tractors. If I save 33 dollars a year on gas (not letting them idle for example while I survey), and save 33 dollars a year on tire repairs to my trailers (but not hauling wood so fast over rocks) etc etc etc.
As for cancer? I run a cutting tools business where we weld cobalt and tungsten and molyb bandsaw blades all day. I have to deal with used threading oil and bandsaw machine inspections and metal filings 40 or 50 hours a week.
As for groundwater I'm in the woods 1/2 to 2 miles from my artesian spring well. My concern for local groundwater ends there. By the time groundwater makes off my property into the two drainage areas, I have always assumed mother nature has filtered it. The simple act of burning firewood cause far more environmental damage than throwing oil on the ground.
You raised good points but when I count pennies and nickels on my firewood sales just like I do in my cutting tools sales, used motor oil provides a savings. So Yes it is worth it.
I'd be pretty angry if some stranger (or county agency) decided to spray 10 or 20 gallons of petroleum all over my property. Why should I do it myself? I switched to biolube two years ago. Any Stihl or Husky dealer can order it. Yes, they complain about no one else wanting it. Yes, you end up looking like some green, granola eating, tree-hugging logger (huh?). And yes, they will special order it if you insist.
I know there is Old School and New School, and I'm probably pre-Kindergarten. However, if I were purchasing a property, and I discovered the previous owner had been spraying motor oil all over the place for 20 years, I'd seriously consider walking away. We have haywire environmental laws out here in California, and the buyer can inherit a cleanup liability. Bio oil is cheap insurance.
I've been reading this thread with great interest. I've used all three types of bar lube (used motor oil, new motor oil, and tackified bar oil) and have cut a lot of wood over the last 30+ years. I never did it professionally, but my Father in law did and I picked his brain too.
My conclusions:
Used motor oil: Pros: Cheap, does the job Cons: Dirty, turns everything black it touches, never washes out. Requires turning up the automatic oiler to a higher level, so you often use a tank of oil quicker than a tank of gas, creating the risk of running the bar dry. Slings off the bar at the nose (which is why the previous) and leaves the actual cutting part of the bar under-lubed. Poorest job of lubing of the three. *May* be carcinogenic. Unless you get enough from oil changes in your own vehicles you have to scrounge it. And, the deal killer for me finally after hundreds of gallons of the stuff, it usually contains enough contaminants that it will plug up the pump, bar or passages at the worst moments.
New motor oil: Pros: Does the job, slightly cheaper than dedicated bar oil. Cleaner than used oil. Clean, doesn't plug anything up and the viscosity can be chosen to work in cold weather. Cons: Slings off the bar so requires turning up the oiler and may under-lube the cutting side of the bar or cause the tank to run dry early. Not significantly cheaper than dedicated bar oil.
Tackified Bar Oil: Pros: Does the best job of lubing the chain - Since I switched there is noticeably less wear on the bars of my saws, even though I am in a sandier and dustier area. Doesn't sling off the bar, so it is still there where you need it. You use less, so it partially offsets the higher cost of new motor oil. Clean, but it does tend to leave "strings" all over the side of the saw. Never seems to plug anything up. Handy, no more messing with a 15 gallon drum of used oil. Cons: Price, slightly more expensive than new (cheap) motor oil, but if bought on sale can be had for essentially the same price. Sticky - coats your gloves, jeans, boots, truck, whatever you spill it on. Doesn't want to come off. Tends to get pretty stiff in cold weather.
Conclusion: For me, after wearing out a number of saws and bars and chains using old motor oil, I decided that paying for the "real stuff" was a good investment. All of the loggers I currently know use it because it lengthens bar and chain life by allowing them to run cooler and with less wear. Cooler chains don't stretch as much and don't require as much maintenance. My experience since switching is that the tackified oil is well worth the price. The only drawback I have found is that it gets so thick in sub-zero (F) weather that you have to thin it to make it pump. Usually under those conditions I just fall back on *new* motor oil. I will never go back to the used stuff again.
Your mileage, as always, may vary.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
We've been waiting for that 'round these parts as long as I can remember. I don't think Doug ever admits to being wrong. As near as I can tell, his opinion is the nearest thing to gospel truth. Doug, thanks for setting us all on the path to righteousness!
I've been using hair oil in my chain saw for years. The chain always stays neat and nicely slicked down, even in a strong wind. Occasionally you should take it to a barber for a trim. Some prefer to take the chain saw to a beauty parlor for a wash and set, but that's for sissies.
I rather hope you send it to a recycler and don't dump it on the ground.
I don't think Mother Nature is very good at breaking down petroleum oil. I suspect breakdown relies heaviely on oxidation and exposure UV,both of which will be minimized underground.
Organics can travel long distances through the water table. E.g. mother nature is very poor at filtering them. So if someone uphill where the water enters your artesian system dumps oil on the ground you likely have traces of it in your well, depending on how long it takes to get to you from there.
No need to trust me, or to assume, these are things you can check out for yourself.
Uh, that rather heavily depends on the quantity of each, but I suspect you are right on the mark as regars how much oil gets into the environment from normal chain saw use to make firewood vs how muchharm is done by burning the wood.
But that is an argument from irrelevency, the amoutn of firewood you cut probably remains independent of your choice of bar oil.
I few years back I helped a guy convert some wood using an Alaskan chian saw mill. He used some sort of vegetable oils in the gas and on the bar. The manufacturer claimed (of course) that these were better lubricants than their petroleum-based counterparts. This guy used them because the apararatus put the operators face near the exhaust and the vegetable oils made the environment less unpleasant.
Yikes - I'm already wearing a helmet, face shield, glasses and earmuffs - how'd he fit in a respirator? I don't think mine would fit under the face sheild.
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