Do you think splicing 100' of wire onto a GTO exit wand would work?

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On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:30:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

Reordered:
Don't let one person, especially a person who reads the very newsgroup you're reading (because of the nature of the question, he must have thought you were reading SER), pressure you into removing crossposting. Whether you need individual shielding for each pair of wires is more an electronics question than it is a home repair question. Sure plenty of the people on AHR know more than just how to saw wood, but fewer do electronics full-time, which some of the SER people do. Fewer took relevant courses also, either in school or at their jobs.
And especially in this case, I don't know why he's suggesting shielded pairs when the original cable has only one layer of shielding for all four wires. I guess because the stuff is easy to get from the places he shops, but 4-conductor, one-shield is easy to get at other places.
SER restored.

Sure you can, and if you get 100 feet, doesn't that mean you'll be burying the connection with the other 50 feet, as planned?
BTW, don't get carried away with their alleged "today only". There are at least two places that are cheaper than they are for this every day of the year. monoprice and one other I bought from

Who says it's not required? It's not facilitated or provided for, but that's not the same as not required. Even Robert Macy -- and no one has commented on his posts yet. I would like to hear others' opinion on that -- didn't say that that a mere plug-in modular phone connector (which is what cat5 and 6 use, except with more wires) was enough. He disliked soldering but wants crimping. Plugging in is not crimping, and he recommended crimping.

Yes it does, to shield one pair from another, one wire from a wire in another pair, but even your original cable doesn't bother to do that. It only tries to shield the wires from the outside.
With Cat-5 or 6, you're paying for 4 pairs, 8 wires, instead of just 4 wires. That's a waste too.
And you're paying for them to put on ends which unless someone I know convinces me otherwise, you should really cut off and solder or crimp to the original wire.
They do use modular plugs where the phone line comes into the house, if there is a Network Interface Device, or the same thing by another name. It's a covered box, outside but above grade. I don't know how often they need maintenance.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:29:00 -0500, mm wrote:

No. Each wire has plastic around it and the shield is this beautifully braided tinned wire which is much thinner than the other four conductors but it's an entire net of wires nicely braided together.

I think it can easily be soldered. It's not foil. It's braided wire.

They give you stickers saying kids on a bicycle can open the gate so I'd be pretty sure in a "normal" situation, a metal wheelbarrow, moving fast enough, could also trigger the opening.
There is a sensitivity adjustment pot that comes with the exit wand that you mount onto the gate control board, so, yes, there is a sensitivity adjustment.
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:34:00 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

I've only used the tape. I've never used, or even seen, the kit. Hadn't even heard of a kit with resin before.

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HD has it in several locations in our local stores (plumbing and maybe also electrical areas) - may be hard to find cuz most people don't know about it.
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It seems we are talking about -- at least that's what's included in his kit -- "Scotch 23 High Voltage Tape"**, but when I search on that at the Home Depot site, I get 2 hits, regular vinyl electrical tape and packaging tape. When I search on "Scotch 23", I don't get anything.
Now HD and Lowes have the worst webpages I've come across, so maybe that doesn't mean anything.
The one easily visible thing I've noticed about this tape is that it is wound on a white plastic spool, instead of a cardboard spool. It's thick and has a backing layer that has to be removed to use a piece.
Are we talking about the same thing? Do they really have it at HD. I looked years ago but couldnt' find it.
It's expensive. I think I paid 11 or 12 dollars a roll, but it's great for special uses.
**Other listings for this tape call it self-fusing. That probably refers to what I said about merging into a big blob. Other descriptions make reference to the polyester liner, the backing layer.
But so far, I've found little reference to how it is to be applied. Just one line "Physical and electrical properties are unaffected by the degree of stretch." and I don't see how that is even true. OF course if it is stretched to thee times its length and it's 2/3rds thinner, it's going to have lower strength and electrical insulating qualities. They even have a chart about that on page 3 of the same data sheet.
http://www.cablejoints.co.uk/upload/3M_Scotch_23_Tape___Self_Amalgamating_Rubber_Tape.pdf
Self-amalgamating they call it here.
BTW, if you don't stretch it, it won't stick to what's underneath it. There is no adhesive on the tape.
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I don't remember it being called High Voltage Tape...

is exactly what it should be doing when you apply it.

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Most of the hits I got yesterday called it Scotch 23 Rubber Splicing Tape.
Hah, Mouser sells it. Within the areas they sell things for connectors, small switches, etc. they have just about everything, http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Specialty/SCOTCH-23-3-4-TAPE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuwwZaQzCsHbBksJ154q6XeW%2F11ygiiXNI%3D
They call it rubber splicing tape. When I got mine, it came without a wrapper, which is why I ddidn't know what to call it.
They want 22.76 a roll. A dollar less each if you buy two. The URL I posted yesterday charged about 12. I don't know about relative shipping costs. This is for 3/4" which is the narrowist I've seen. 30 feet which is what the other rolls that width were.
This width is what I have and if you get wider, it may be harder to economize with it.
A search for rubber splicing at the HD site showed nothing.
Lowes came up with Image x 3M 3/4"W x 15'L Electrical Splicing Tape Item #: 158594 | Model #: 2242
For moisture sealing and insulating. Highly conformable, linerless ethylene propylene rubber (EPR) based tape
But this is number 2242 Linerless Rubber Splicing tape, with which I have no experience and it isn't the same thing because without the liner the other stuff would merge into a blob. It's only 3.94 but if it doesn't self-amalgamate, I don't know what is special about it.

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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:14:22 -0500, blueman wrote:

I'll go to Home Depot today and let us know what I find.
In hind sight, I should have bought the WIRELESS vehicle exit sensor setup! http://www.mightymule.com/PDF/Manuals/FM130-Wireless-Exit-Sensor.pdf
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On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

I suppose it's too late to exchange the exit wand.

Yep. For good reason. The contraption belches RF somewhere between 20Khz and 150Khz and is similar to the vehicle detectors used for traffic signal control. The mass of the vehicle detunes the coil resulting in an increase in oscillator gate(?) current. In other words, the whole mess, including the cable, is part of a resonant circuit.
If you were able to rip apart the tube, you'll probably find an iron core, with a zillion turns of wires wrapped around it. There will also be a tuning capacitor, which is the key problem. Each length of cable will have a different tuning capacitor, where the difference in lengths is roughly equal to the difference in capacitance. These differences are compensated by the internal tuning cap. If you're lucky, they may have jumpers inside to select different cable lengths. If the designer is really cool, the capacitor might be inside the controller.
You might be able to get some clues if there are any patent numbers of FCC ID numbers on the devices. I couldn't find anything registered to "Gates That Open".

They may be right. 100ft of untwisted parallel cheezy wire is good for about 500pf or so. That's quite a bit and will seriously affect the resonant frequency of the wand. However, if the support droid is telling the truth, then there should be a jumper or adjustment inside the controller box for different lengths of cable. The manuals are useless. So, you get to rip it open. Learn By Destroying(tm).

Baloney. Well, maybe 50% baloney. The resonant frequency will change, and therefore, so will the sensitivity.

It's not the splice. It's the added capacitance wrecking the resonance.

Nope.
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# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
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wrote:

Ok, I lied. It's not the added capacitance. It's the added inductance of the 100ft of feed cable. The destructions for a different type of loop at: <http://www.hooverfence.com/gtopro/manual/loopdt1-manual.pdf show an inductance of 0.22 microhenries per foot for the connecting cable (presumably the same cable for both types of loops). That's quite a bit of added inductance. I'm guessing, but it looks like the target value for the loop and cable feed is about 100 microhenries.
Either way, adding the 100ft of cable is not going to work.
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wrote:

Looks like the oscillation frequency is dependent on the loop inductance. I (wrongly) assumed it was a fixed frequency (to make the FCC happy). That means you could probably extend the cable feed and all that will happen is that the oscillation frequency will be drastically lowered. I don't know if that's going to cause a problem with whatever they use for a detector, but it just might work. However, if the new lower frequency causes airplanes to fall out of sky, I suggest you instead purchase the correct exit sensor.
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# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
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Why has no one paid attention to my suggestion?
Get the manufacturer to give you full credit towards a longer cable.
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:43:51 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:

Once it's installed, they won't do that.
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On 2/2/2010 8:43 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

they were misled.
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True. But the cabling is not horribly expensive. The company should do this out of "common courtesy".
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:40:08 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"

The pickup coil and cabling appear to be a matched set where the cable is an integral part of the tuned circuit. However, at $200 for a coil and roll of cable, I would think there would be sufficient profit to allow for an ocassional courtesy exchange. Whether courtesy is all that common is debatable as companies that have liberal return policies tend to have it abused and overused.
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GTO has told me that if the OP contacts them, and returns the original wand for a checkout (and it's working correctly), they will make some sort of accommodation, because they want happy customers.
I've stated this in another posting in this thread.
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:48:48 -0500, George wrote:

It was my fault. Not theirs. They recommended 50 feet but I should have questioned that. In reality, I didn't realize until it was too late that 50 feet is just too close to the gate. At least future users who see this post will know better than I.
PS: Removed sci.electronics.repair crosspost
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:43:51 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"

Because everyone is too busy writing one line answers to read what you posted.
There are currently 47 messages in this thread, which is a bit much to read. I've only read about half, with nothing really interesting (except my own postings).

That would be too easy, obvious, no fun, doesn't involve repair, lacking in entertainment value, and not much of a learning experience. I also assumed that he's already tried to do that.
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Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
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...snip...

LOL! Thanks. I needed that today.
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