Just be careful with anything you are covering up. If they do catch you they may require you to uncover anything they want a peek at. You could be punching holes in drywall or busting up concrete. Other than that the fine is usually double the permit fee, Feel lucky?
Like (for example):
When adding a single new circuit. When installing a generator back-up switch. Installing a chimney liner.
I mean, I'm all for code and everything, but it is a pain and it is very slow, and requires a day off to wait for the inspector...
-Dean
I am a strong believer in codes. As long as the work is done properly and safely, it is my house and no reason to pay for a permit and inspection. It is an income source for the town. If I was building a house or major addition, I'd get the permit. My roofer got one when they did their work, but did an inspector ever come around? No, they just took the money.
Last place I lived required building permits for damn near any home improvement.
There was NO inspector.
It was just a rip-off tax on folks who tried to improve their homes.
"dean" wrote
Hell, no. Screw the inspectors. They're just toady boys for the over-priced contractors that think they know everything. Why, just last week I put in a chimney liner all by myself, and I didn't need any damn inspector telling me what's safe and what's not. In fact, I was... Uh, hold on a sec............ Sorry, I gotta go. My doctor just called, and an operating room just became available at the hospital, so I can get started on my skin grafts now. Just think, in only three years I'll have a recognizable face again. See ya!!
Depoends on where you live. I didn't bother getting a permit when I built my house. I did get a permit for the septic tank.
This web site has examples of silly code problems
dean wrote:
If it is something minor (which would probably irritate the inspector to come and look at with *me* doing the work), and something I know 100% that I am doing to code and safely, then no.
But say I am just adding a new electrical switch... Well I used to be an electrician, so I know what I'm doing and don't cut corners. I *don't* use whatever wire happens to be in my shed. If I don't have the proper wire, I go buy it. Same with electrical box, switch, grounding, and everything else related to the work.
So if I am out of some wiring supplies, I will go spend $20 or $30 to get the right stuff to add that one electrical switch. But then I'll probably get a roll of wire and a box of wire nuts which I will use on other projects.
And I usually ask for permits more than is necessary. I'll ask if I need a permit for this or that, and sometimes they say that I don't need a permit.
And when I do get a permit for say electrical work, the inspector looks at some of my work, but not everything. He sees that I am doing things to code where he looks, and figures everything else is the same - which it is. And these guys are busy, they don't have time to look at everything (unless they can see that there are a lot of code violations), so it is really up to me to be sure all my work is done to code and is safe.
At one time, the inspector lived across the street from me. I was doing some work on my front porch and went to his office to ask if I needed a permit. He said don't bother. But basically I had the benefit of having a permit, because he drove by my house and saw what I was doing every day. So if I did anything which was not up to code, he would have pointed it out to me with a quickness. Actually when I was done, he came over and said nice job, and that I went beyond what code required!
I just installed a woodstove, hearth, and chimney. I had *no* idea what I was doing before starting this project. So you bet your bippy I got a permit. But I also read all I could about it and went to ask the inspector questions a few times before doing the work. So I now know 100% my work was done properly and is safe. The inspector came out and inspected everything and said nice job. (Double-checked my work.) And my insurance guy came out and inspected my work as well. (Triple check!)
So I would say, if you're *not* 100% sure what you are doing is safe and up to code, then get a permit - even if it is adding just one electrical switch. And so what if the inspector asks you to re-do some work, well you have learned something and will know your work is done safely. You will sleep better at night.
If you go to sell your home and you need a certificate of occupancy for a finished basement or new room and don't have it, you can lose the deal.
Some towns near where I live (Gresham, Oregon) require a permit just to change the porch light fixture. I think that is getting ridiculous and potentially leads to petty situations where your nosy neighbors might "turn you in" just for replacing the porch light.
Beachcomber
Yesterday, I saw the new neighbor draining his hot water heater. He had just bought the house. I went over and asked what was up. He said his hot water heater went out. He has owned the house for only a month.
He got the house warranty. The installer said that it would cost him $45 service call, and that he needed to replace the supply lines, install earthquake straps (we live in Las Vegas) and put a catch pan under the new heater. He also said that it would require a permit, that he would get it, and that would be $150. Total out of pocket expense not covered by the warranty: $650. He told the man to get off his property.
He called the insurance agent who called the warranty company. They sent another installer who did the job for $45 out of pocket expense.
You don't always need a permit. I have done major work on my properties. I know people with experience who know codes. The work is always done to code, and I'll be damned if I am going to go and pay to do work on my own property. And then wait on inspectors.
And don't give me that crap about having to have permits to sell. The man who sold the house across the street did a lot of the work himself without permits, did horrible work, and still sold the house. In today's market, the seller is in the driver's seat.
STeve
Same here (Las Vegas) and about the same price. I found out the company was from Kalifornia, operating in Nevada. I kindly explained the house was built without the "earth quake" strap, etc. He stated it was "new code", so I sent him packin'.
I bought a new water heater, installed it and was refunded the cost of the water heater from the house warranty.. no permits.
I do get permits (built stucco patio cover) when it is required by the home owners association (HOA)... The CCR's required them, plus the neighbors had to signoff on the "neighborhood impact statement" (acknowledging I'm building onto the house). If it's inside the house I don't get permits.
Oren "My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."
Your neighbor might have talked to the "crook of the month". I got curious, so I did a google search. If I read the permit app right, it costs $20.85 for a water heater. Link:
Sounds good :o)
Our city has very different license and permit regs depending on whether it is single fam, multi or to be rented within a year. Seems to allow more risk by DIYers for themselves, rather than for renters.
We needed permits for hurricane shutters, AC replacement and water heater, all of which were obtained by contractors. The only inspection done was the electrical work on the AC, and there was no delay. The installation was done by one crew, the electrical hookup by an electrician.
Hubby and I obtained the permit for seawall repairs for our condo, including new drawings, to save money the contractor would have charged. On that project, there was a stop-work order when the contractor was ready to pour concrete for tiebacks (13) because there was water (very little) in the excavations. The contractor was using hydraulic cement?, the tide comes up twice a day, and this was end of day. There was no work the following day and until around 10 am the next when the inspector returned. The inspector, as it turned out, was the same arse who ok'd our bad reroof with many shingles improperly nailed. On the seawall, I had the impression that it was a racial issue, plain and simple. The contractor had a specialty license and no complaints filed on it; believe he has retired.
clipped
My hubby has a buddy who always volunteers to "help" with repairs, and who does the most assinine, incompetent and hideous looking work I've ever seen. His work always requires rework. He put down pavers on concrete walk, used a level to make sure each was level but didn't tamp them so they are all at different heights :o) Uses spray foam to remplace rotted studs in a wood partition :o) He offered to help tile our living room and dining room, which almost sent me to the hospital with palpitations. Even my hubby knew that was a bad idea :o)
I was concerned that the insurance would not pay up if my house burnt down, if I didn't have a permit and documentation at the township. The insurance told me that as long as its done to code and wasn't installed wrong, the all would be ok. I'm putting in a wood burning central heating system and chimney liner.
Dean
Here is an example for you (a little off-topic but related):
I had an early college job (a long time ago) assisting in the installation of business telephone systems. This involved running lots of cable. We had permits to run cable.
We were running cable in a crawlspace above a parking garage that was underneath the business. An inspector came around and looked at our cable and said we needed to run plenum cable since this was also an air space (fair enough). So the job got shut down while a flurry of phone calls were made.
About an hour later (after we heard the property owner called someone in the city inspectors office - perhaps even higher up) the problem went away along with the inspector. Work continued on. Somehow someone changed the classification of that crawlspace so we could continue on.
Now... who was right? Us or the inspector? Or who pays the taxes?
The moral here: Permit or no permit you can still bend the rules if you know the rule makers.
On 1 Nov 2005 22:31:32 -0800, "dean" scribbled this interesting note:
We live in North Texas (the DFW area). One of my parent's rent houses had a fire in a corner bedroom (16 year old girl, unsupervised, lighting a candle and then talking on the phone. Match not extinguished and dropped on bed...) Extensive smoke damage and water damage. We did our homework. We talked with Building Inspections. We were told we didn't need any permits. So we gutted the home down to the studs in the walls, did the work to code, and now the interior of that home, which was originally built in the 1950s, is now only a few years old. No permits required, except possibly for the electrical work, but I'm uncertain about that as we hired that job out.
-- John Willis snipped-for-privacy@airmail.net (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
When a turd hits the fan, the agency will be in denial saying it was not authorized. After Hurricane Andrew hit Dade County, FL it was found that inspectors were on the *take* and some went to prosecution. They bent the rules!
Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."
I've found many city codes, speaking of electrical here, allow for licensed personel to perform the work without permits if the project is 'small'. Usually a dollar amount. Not suggesting you shouldn't obtain a permit, but I use the local codes in this case as a guildline for what I want to get permited and not.
But officially, I would always contact your local inspectors for their advice, they are there to help you. ;)
hth,
tom @
On 11/02/05 04:37 pm The Real Tom tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:
Our township code says only that a permit is required if the job will cost $200 or more; nothing about needing a licensed person for wiring, plumbing, or anything else. And, yes, I did search the code (on line) for the word "electric." When we had a basement window enlarged to comply with current "egress window" standards, I asked the contractor about a permit, but he said not to bother.
Perce
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