Maybe things work differently up there, but I've never had an insurance agent demand or even ask about a building permit for anything. The only time anyone was even here to look at anything was when I filed a Sandy hurricane claim.
I know of a case here where a guy built a deck in his backyard. The inspector was driving by and saw it. He wound up having to tear it down and start over. IDK for sure the root cause was that it could not be properly inspected now that it was built, eg footers, but suspect that was probably it. Either that or there was some other fatal visible flaw, that could not be corrected by redoing just a minor part of it.
I also know of a whole condo complex that was built with just a shovel of concrete thrown under supporting posts for deck footers. And that was inspected...... Some years later, the FBI arrested the mayor and found $50K in his attic, which gives you an idea of what was going on.....
That's just sad. In San Jose, CA downtown area is a 'short' bank building, near Taylor and 1st Street. Architecture is just NOT right. The story behind it is that a well-known builder/developer, who shall remain nameless, just started building it! Got the first story done and FINALLY someone in the city permit department stopped the building process. The builder wanted six stories, but only got one, so the building has a strange look to it.
Same builder on a VERY large building did not have proper drains in his planning, so he told one of the workers to just chop a hole between parking floors to let the water drain down through !! , several floors. Even that employee knew better.
I once went to City Council meeting whhere this builder was obtaining huge residential building construction, six buildings of four stories each. The plans of each 'residence' he presented to the Council showed really nice floor plans, with even a 'Den' for the resident's home office. And of course a pool to service the large complex. Being an Engineer, I started scaling the drawings to see what each 'home' would look like and found the Den was approximately 7 ft by 7 ft !!! I have walk-in closets bigger than that. EVERYTHING was scaled to be tiny!
Oh, well, the complex was built, but of course no pool, the pool was in the plans to get the site approved. No intention of building it there because there was a municipal swimming pool soon to be built two blocks away, so why bother? The residence can WALK to the city's public pool, the exercise will be good for them, eh?
I always get permits for major projects, like building our garage, building our house, and remodeling projects at my in-laws house. I also get permits if there are major electrical changes, like running a new service to a building, primarily because the power company won't connect without one. And I get permits for things like a woodstove installation where there are safety concerns and/or could affect my homeowner insurance. On big projects it's nice to have the inspectors second opinion to make sure I didn't overlook anything. Codes change and I can't keep up on everything.
However, I don't bother with most small projects. Adding an electrical outlet, rewiring a heating circuit, running a subpanel to a shed, building a small shed, constructing a small retaining wall, replacing a water heater, etc. Many of these don't need permits anyway, but I do my best to follow or exceed the codes for each project, even if I am not getting a permit.
There were a couple of projects like replacing the windows at my in-laws or replacing the roof on our house that I didn't realize I was even supposed to get a permit for. To me those were just basic maintenance items like painting, or replacing a broken faucet or something. I didn't learn I should have gotten a permit for those till long after the projects were finished. My bad for not checking I guess, but I still performed the work well above the code minimums.
I don't know if it would matter to the building department, but we always document repairs and improvements with lots of photographs. We do it mostly for our own reference and memories, but I would be able to show how each step was done if they questioned the work.
Anthony Watson
Most permits make sense from the standpoint of safety or impact to the neighborhood, but I admit I don't understand the reasoning behind those permits. It's a good idea for contractors doing work for others, a secondary eye to make sure the job is done right. But I can't imagine a homeowner doing their own work even thinking about a permit for something like replacing a water heater.
Good luck with that. Let me know how it works out for you... :)
Take care,
Anthony Watson
Problem with a roof is that it is easily seen and can be reported. No one ever came to inspect a few roofing jobs I had done but the town took the money. In many cases, the money is all that matters.
It may not be just the fee that is charged: if the municipality knows that the property has been upgraded, doesn't that give them an excuse to up the taxable value and therefore the taxes as well?
Perce
Boy, you sure are cynical, and unfortunately, absolutely on the nose!!!!
For those folks who do their research about a contractor's reputation, a permit is not necessary.
Some cities have signs posted that say that contractors must be registered with the city.
They may want to protect residents, but I suspect that many cities just want some extra revenue.
Doing a job safely is a primary concern of mine.
I have turned down jobs where the customer wanted me to cut corners.
Andy
Souinds more fascist right wing to me - -
Perhaps if it had no roof to start with?? Maintenance should NEVER trigger a tax increase. Added features like finishing a basement - yes. Like paving a gravel driveway? yes. Like adding a pool? yes. Replacing windows? no. Adding a patio door inplace of a window? Sure - I can see that.
As for permits - anything involving possible structural integrety - sure. Anything changing the basic footprint of the house - sure. Major pluming or electrical ALTERATIONS, yes. Maintenance? Nope.
There was one municipality around here (SW Fla) that thought simply replacing a bad snap switch or receptacle should trigger a permit. I laughed at the AHJ until I figured out he was serious. Government run amok.
Believe it or not, the local municipal government requires a permit for ethernet and/or telephone jacks.
The permit fee is $50 and inspection fee is $120 (for up to 10 jacks) so adding a jack or two would cost the homeowner $170 just for the permit. And since these clowns only inspect from 9am to 4pm, I'd have to take vacation time from work to get the actual inspection.
Can you say scofflaw?
Of course if it is needed. Insurance companies don't like things done without permit where it is required.
That's an oxymoron. A reputable, honest contractor is going to make sure the proper permits are pulled. His reputation isn't going to be very good when he gets shut down by the inspector, has to do work over, tear it out, etc. Plus in some instances, a contractor is going to wind up in some kind of dispute with the homeowner. In which case, not having permits has a good chance of getting back to the inspector, being a point against the contractor if it goes to court, etc.
It is simpler than that in states like Florida where a contractor doing unpermitted work will lose his license and face fines. The reality is, an unlicensed person has far less to fear than a licensed contractor. Other than stop work orders, a homeowner really have little to fear.
The problem is, where do you draw the line? Is adding a receptacle something you need a permit for?
I'd guess that for anyone here, the answer is no. We know what wire to use for a 15A or 20A circuit.
Many years ago I was installing a storm door on a new house in a big development. Homeowners typically added a lot of things like that as well as finished basements into family rooms. I was installing the door on a walkout basement. The new homeowner was finishing the room with studs and paneling. He added four receptacles and had them wired up. He used #18 lamp cord.
Had I not been there, the wall would have been closed up and who knows what would have happened. Maybe they would use a space heater and start a fire. So, is inspection needed?
In the 49 years I've owned houses, no insurance company ever set foot on my property. How would they know?
I ran into an insurance inspector nosing around the outside of my house once.
Ed,
My insurance agent has been out a few times.
The first was to photograph and take measurements of our old mobile home when we bought it.
The second was to photograph and take measurements of the new house we built.
The third was to verify our woodstove was installed correctly and had a valid permit.
Basically, they would not sign us up for a new policy until they had actually seen what they were insuring. Personally, I find that better than the county assessors office. Years ago they pulled in our driveway and without even getting out of the car wrote down that we had a 3-bedroom, 2 bath house. I just happened to catch them before they pulled out to correct them it was actually a 2-bedroom, 1 bath mobile home. Otherwise we would have been taxed on the larger home back then.
Anthony Watson
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