Do these exist: "Instant on" or very rapid start CFL???

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"Deal roach?" Sounds like a three-position switch based on the Monty "Hall" effect." (-"
I assume from the context that should be "dead roach" because the pins of the IC are face up like a dead bug. Guys like you and Dan Lanciani are better technicians than I'll ever be. I've seen some of the added IC modifications and while they are neat, and while I certainly can think of some mods that need doing, it's not in my skill set. Palmpads, in particular, should be prevented from sending more than 10 seconds worth of commands so that when a button gets stuck, it doesn't jam the RF until you find the miscreant transmitter.

I've done a number of the mods, some work, some don't. Most are based on the older X-10 module designs. I've sadly found that one of the "hacks" kills local control but NOT current leakage. X-10 definitely should create a CFL-friendly module with either a slide switch or a programmable way to defeat "local on/current sense." I'm pretty reluctant to modify these modules (or anything else that's line powered) because if a fire starts for any reason, I've left myself exposed to an investigator citing my mods as the problem (however slim).
In any event, some of the appliance modules I have (RCA, Magnavox, Stanley and other gotten at deep discounts when they abandoned the lines) don't have circuits that match the ones shown in the mods. I'll have to search again to see if the newer circuit boards have been researched and modified, too. I hate disabling local sense - so much so I'll put a small resistive load on the same circuit to absorb the trickle current. Some of the newer, larger wattage CFL's seem to be able to relight themselves even with other electrical devices plugged into the same controller module. It's a problem the X-10 has to fix on their end with a module more compatible with CFLs. The new Federal efficiency law may force their hand, at least if they don't want to answer the same question every day on their support lines.
Plus, it's a pain in the butt to do anymore than open and snip the diode (the fix that doesn't work!) or cap a EagleEye CDS cell with a piece of heat shrink tubing (does work to control the +1 beast. In looking over the X-10 site for a CFL friendly module I see that finally, X-10 has made the +1 code activation a programmable selection and not one that had to be cured with heat shrink tubing. Maybe they've got something in the works because I'd bet half the tech calls they receive are related to fluorescent lighting, one way or another. Thanks for your input, Art.
-- Bobby G.
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Smarty wrote the following:

Why do you need an instant on CFL bulb? Are you using it for flash photography? My house is loaded with 13W CFLs. I have them at the top and bottom of my basement stairs. I turn them on when I start down and I can see the stairs immediately. By the time I get to the bottom of the stairs, they are at full or 90% of full brightness. If I am reading a book and turn on the table lamp with a 13 watt CFL, by the time I sit down in the chair and find the place where I left off, the bulb is at full brightness.
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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It depends on what you call instant:
We have some Wally World quick starts above our bath vanity and they come "on" pretty much at the flip of the switch. However, they are very dim when they come on and take about one minute to come up to full speed. This is OK with us because full bright isn't what we want at 6:00am.
Other places, like our bedroom closet, have normal Wallyworld bulbs that have about a 1 second lull, then come on near full brilliance.
My suggestion is sample a few and then buy more of the ones that meet your needs.
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RonB wrote:

A second is not very long in the grand scheme of things, but our brains are accustomed to "instant on", so we jump to the conclusion that something is busted long before the second elapses. Doesn't take many times to become accustomed to "lower expectations".
I have a couple of fixtures with two lamps. I use one fast one and use the other hole to use up the slow ones.

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Smarty wrote:

I have some. They come on immediately, turn off, on, off, and then finally stay on. They're first generation Philips CFLs with a permanent 60 Hz ballast in the base and replacable fluorescent tube. Heavy, too -- some floor lamps can't be trusted to stand up with one installed.
As for modern CFLs, I don't know what brands or models are instant-on, but I know they exist because some of them have circuit boards designed for a thermistor (temperature sensitive resistor), but the thermistor is left out (Max-lite, both original large base and newer small base models).
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On 6/9/2011 5:48 PM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

use the circuit board you describe actually do come up to full brightness very rapidly. If you have any specifics, please provide them as I am glad to explore other options, mostly out of curiosity since I have found the hybrid GE bulbs.
It seems that heating the filament and vaporizing some mercury cannot be done instantly, despite claims to the contrary. GE's solution, using a second halogen bulb temporarily, makes a whole lot of sense to me, and illustrates the reality that a purely fluorescent lamp will take a little time to warm up.
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In the past I had a X 10 motion sensitive system on my pole light. Nice idea worked terrible:( temperature and noisey line unstable.
I thought about some work arounds but decided it wasnt worth it.
Has anyone tried LED lamps on X 10?
they didnt exist when I last played with it.
X 10 was wonderful for my elderly grandma it controlled so much around here:)
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Often the problem with X-10.

A common conclusion. ;-)

Good question! If there are any incandescent's on the string X-10 should work fine, though the nonlinear load might mess up the signaling even more than normal. With a pure LED load dimming might also be a problem.

X-10 is terribly unreliable. Some had good luck with it and others not so much. The technology is really poor. Too bad no one picked up the good idea and made it really workable.
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On 6/9/2011 8:12 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

area network. This approach uses 802.25 IEEE standard compliant devices, and in an entirely different league from X-10.
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Yes, a totally different class of devices. We'll see if Zigbee ever goes anywhere. X-10 had the marketing right but simply blew the technical aspects.
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wrote:
<stuff snipped>

Oh, but they did! Jeff Volp designed a line of repeater/coupler/amplifiers called XTB that take the weak 5V X-10 signal emitted by stock devices and ampflies it to nearly 25V. That sort of signal strength cuts right through CFL and other EMI noise. An X-10 installation without one isn't worth a damn because of signal attenuation and signal interference in the modern home. X-10 was designed for the homes of 30+ years ago when there were no switching power supplies and no CFL's.
http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_overview.htm
I was just about to scrap my $1K plus X-10 system when Jeff developed the XTB. It's like the carbureutor that runs on water - a truly miraculous device that's saved me (and many others) tons of money by preserving out extensive investment in X-10 gear. It comes ready made or in kit form. People who've installed them wonder how they ever put up with X-10 without the XTB. I use a XTB-IIR at the panel as a coupler/repeater and a standalone XTB connected to my WGL all housecode RF transceiver in the attic to make sure that all RF commands reach the repeater. If you can change out your own breakers, you can easily add the XTB-IIR repeater/coupler/amplifier to your system. It's the biggest bang you can get for your bucks these days.
Only one extremely noisy fluorescent lamp (2 bulb 48") was ever able to overwhelm it at the end of a long circuit when it began emitting noise over 1 volt right at 120KHz, the X-10 transmission frequency. Jeff's designed a fancy but inexpensive XTBM meter to track down such problems by measuring X-10 voltage, line noise and lots of other X-10 related info. I have a CCTV camera from a quad cam setup focused on the XTBM so I can check the last X-10 transmission easily.
No financial interest, just a very, VERY satisified customer!
-- Bobby G.
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wrote:

After you put lipstick on the pig, it's still a pig.

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Not true. The XTB is far from a cosmetic fix. It's an impeccably engineered solution to a serious problem for people with a lot of X-10 gear. Once you install a powerful repeater/coupler/amp like the XTB-IIR at the panel, X-10 behaves just like it should. It just works. Read some of the reviews at Jeff's site
http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_reports.htm
or my article at Home Toys:
http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_beta_report-rg.htm
I was at the point where my wife demanded all the X-10 gear be yanked because of some spectacular failures. That's when I found the XTB, the product of an American small businessman in Utah named Jeff Volp. After testing a beta version of his invention, I believed he had really hit the ball out of the park. This definitely isn't the cosmetic fix your "lipstick" comment might seem to imply. It addresses and corrects the fundamental flaw of X-10: too weak a signal to cut through the interference generated by modern electrical gear. And it fixes that problem. People with massive X-10 installations report amazing success. Just search Google Groups for unsolicited testimonials.
Since you often stress the value of small businesses and personal initiative, I would have hoped your reaction might be more than a curt one line-dismissal without any apparent serious investigation. Jeff's developed and built a great product that's been a real life-safer to 100's of X-10 owners. Dissing a hard-working small businessman with a great idea that's helped so many based on zero research? Not very American. I suppose you'd rather curse the darkness than look for a flashlight. Too bad. It's an excellent product with a very satisfied user base. If you use X-10 and don't look into the XTB line, it's definitely your loss, not mine.
-- Bobby G.
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wrote:

In the past I had a X 10 motion sensitive system on my pole light. Nice idea worked terrible:( temperature and noisey line unstable.
I thought about some work arounds but decided it wasnt worth it.
Has anyone tried LED lamps on X 10?
they didnt exist when I last played with it.
X 10 was wonderful for my elderly grandma it controlled so much around here:) ===================================================You also sound like a candidate for Jeff Volp's XTB line of repeater/coupler/amplifiers:
http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_reports.htm
I have not tried LED bulbs with X-10 because I was burned as an early adopter of CFLs and the price is still too high. That's why I was interested in the hybrid bulb, to see if they behaved somewhat better under X-10 control.
Something someone just wrote about resistive inserts in the back of LED flashlights has given me an idea. CFL's confound stock X-10 devices because X-10 depends on trickle current passing through the bulbs both the power the controller module and to detect "local switching." By leaking a tiny bit of current (IIRC, about 5ma) through the filament, the circuitry was able to detect someone flipping the switch on the lamp base and thus activate the module. This trickle current does NOT pass through a CFL bulb circuitry the same way.
But what if someone made a small disk that was screwed into the socket between the CFL and the center socket pin that contained a resistor that allowed just enough current to pass to still power the module electronics and the "local sense" feature? Wouldn't that disk also prevent the current that leaks through the CFL bulb from causing it to flash or in some cases relight itself completely? Do they still sell those little "bulb life extender" disks that fit into the sockets the same way I've described?
-- Bobby G.
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