Lawyers don't typically take a case for recovering $5k
for a sewer line on a contingency basis. And even if
they do, when they send you a demand letter, you can
negotiate and settle.
A lawyer typically isn't going to take a case for a
$5K sewer line on contigency. And even if they did,
before it got to that, don't you think the buyer is going
to contact the seller and present the $5K bill? So,
you pay the $5k bill. Your method seems to be for
the seller to repair, replace every last thing that any
potential buyer might someday object to or someday
after the sale sue over. All I'm saying is that
in a case like the above, you're spending $5K for sure
on the small chance you're going to have to spend it
later because something goes wrong. Which way are
you better off?
A - Replace 20 things today because someday a buyer
might want it fixed during inspection, or later sue you for
B - Replace a couple things at inspection or later reimburse
the buyer if they come after you?
How about the buyer has to PROVE they actually had a backup
that amounted to something? That they reallyspent that money.
If they have a problem with the sewer, do you think they
are gonna shell out $25K for a job that could be done for $5k, on the
CHANCE they might recover the $25K later?
How about they win and then the seller is judgement proof,
ie they can't collect? Any rational person is going to do what
work really needs to be done in a cost effective way.
Only if some buyer is stupid enough to actually do that.
I say very few are.
If he has no money, then how in the hell is a lawyer going
to make money taking a case on contigency? Answer:
they won't. They like slip and falls or auto accidents where
there is an insurance company with deep pockets. And
where it's a lot easier to find a doctor to treat neck pain.
Who can prove if a person actually feels pain that
could last a lifetime? And juries feel sympathy for someone in a car
Over a sewer? Not so much. It's a
lot easier to defend a claim over a sewer. Like real bills,
real canceled checks, showing you actually spent the money.
Again, I'm not saying not to disclose. Just that you're creating a
strawman over fear of being sued that largely doesn't exist. Yeah,
a buyer may come back at your for something, at some point.
But if they do, it's all negotiable and not the end of the world.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 12:46:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
"full disclosure" could be as simple as "great grandad lived here
since he was born in 1913, and has done basically nothing to the house
in the last 50 years. The outhouse was replaced with a septic system
at that time, and water and hydro and central heating were installed
at the same time"
The buyer then knows exactly what he is buying - a pig in a poke.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 12:24:41 -0700 (PDT), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
What happens when you buy a house from the bank in a mortgage sale???
What kind of disclosure can you get from someone who knows nothing
about the property other than the balance owing? The defaulted owner
is not going to be involved in the sale, so you buy it from the bank
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, email@example.com wrote:
ed text -
Is that what we're talking about here? I must have missed that
part. I thought it was a house being sold where the owner lives
has had problems with tree roots every few years, etc, etc
And even in a foreclosure, I believe the bank probably still isn't
state disclosure laws. They may wind up answering "no, I know
every question, but I'll bet they still have to fill out the forms, at
least in some states. You're confusing a situation where a seller
truly doesn't know about material defects, so they have nothing to
disclose and one where they do, but don't disclose it. And I say
if you do the latter, you've violated the law in most states and
not going to hide behind calling it an "as-is" sale.
Selling as is is great as long as your willing to accept a very low
price for the home:( and dont care how long it taes to sell:(
90% of buyers want a move in ready home with no work necessary. later
they will redecorate, but they demand move my stuff in and were done.
as is makes home selling hard most customers arent interested, and
those who are want give away prices.....
And you often still come out ahead over spending to fix everything
any potential customer MIGHT find objectionable. And there is almost
always somebody looking for a fixer-upper to "flip". Let HIM take the
risk, unless YOU are knowlegeable enough and capable of doing the
repairs yourself - in which case why the heck have you not fixed it
Can one put a home up for sale, with the specific disclaimer
I'm in a 100-year-old house in a declining neighborhood,
that I've owned since 1988.
It has LOTS of problems. Such as
- messy combination of knob-and-tube/BX wiring (60 amp
service w/fuses). Looks to have been "converted" in the 40's
or 50's, don't know how much is BX and if any of the K&T is
still in use. Almost all house wiring is "2-wire" (no grounds).
- siding old, loose in spots, really needs to be torn off
- windows all old in need of replacement.
- main bath shower has loose and missing tiles, ceiling
plaster peeling (really needs an entirely new bath)
- sewer needs root cleanout every 3-4 years
- cellar entrance needs replacement, back steps need replacement
- 40-50 year old wallpaper everywhere -- awful stuff
- kitchen looks to have had some updating in 40's or 50's,
but needs replacement
Over the years, I've had work done when it absolutely needed
to be done, but I have refrained from a full remodeling
(which would be EXTENSIVE) because I see no point in dumping
money into the house in a neighborhood that isn't what it
used to be (the small city I live in has been taken over by
The house is in an area where 2-family (or multi-family)
conversions are common. In fact, the house next door (same
size as mine) was converted into a "Mexican hotel", doubled
in size, property paved over -- a mess.
I have no illusions about what this place is worth. I'll
sell it for what it brings and be satisfied with what I get.
I'm thinking this could be a decent 2-family conversion
(it's a 2-story and the interior could be easily
"convertible") -- IF whoever did it was willing to rip out
the entire interior down to the framing, and then do new
wiring, put in new interior walls, insulate, reside the
exterior, new windows, etc. (The roof is new in 2012 --
couldn't wait any longer). But literally EVERYTHING inside
would have to be rebuilt along with the exterior.
When it's time to sell, I'll tell any potential buyer
everything I can, but I'm sure there could be problems I
With a house in need of this much work, how does the seller
Disclose everything about which you know, and then say that
the sale must be "as is"?
On Apr 7, 1:42 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Unless you've read the disclosure laws for the state involved,
the above is just nonsense. How do you know what the law
says or doesn't say? And any place where the neighborhood
is DECLINING, isn't generally one where the lot is worth more
without a house than it is with a house on it. Like someone is
gonna buy it to build a new house on it? His idea of it being
a possible fixer upper into a two family, etc. makes more sense.
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 10:07:36 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
One test is to ask "Is it a material fact that would affect the
compensation to be paid?" Obviously you think it would negatively
affect the price or you wouldn't be looking for a rationale not to
disclose it. I understand your feelings, my house has some slab
cracks and small separations in the ceiling sheet rock that occurred
years ago and haven't moved since. But if not disclosed and later
discovered it could get ugly if the buyers so choose. If their has
not been a problem in years your disclosure can say "waste pipe
cleaned out X years ago" and leave it at that. You've disclosed. If
they care they can ask more about it. If everything is draining
properly at the time of sale and you've made that disclosure I tend to
think you are on solid ground.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Just saying that the waste
pipe was cleaned out X years ago and not disclosing that
you know it has been cleaned out repeatedly every few years
because of tree roots doesn't meet your test of is it a
materially fact that would affect the price. Would you pay the
same amount for these two houses:
A - Had a sewer blockage of unknown cause once
B - Had a sewer blockage every couple of years due to tree roots?
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 13:31:39 -0700 (PDT), " email@example.com"
I agree with your general observation. In the example I gave I was
thinking that the X would be some reasonable period of years, such as
5+ years ago. If it was 6 months ago and that was the third time in a
year than yes, just mentioning the last 6 months but not the last year
would be iffy.
Because this is a legal question, the answer is relative to the
country or state in which the vendor lives. It is also relative to
time. Who knows what local consumer protection law may
require in 2023?
Around here the manager of the MTSA said publically a new sewer line
done in bulk that is entire neighborhoods customer owned lines
averages 12 grand per home plus restoration. The lines are under
streets driveways sidewalks walls etc.
replacing customer service line can easily cost 20 grand per home,
lines are often 12 to 15 feet deep, done to prevent freezing in the
nearly every home has troubles, when roots enter so does rain water
which floods the sewer plant.
the sewer authority has tripled or more the capacity of their plants,
replaced mains in many areas and still has troubles
Where is "around here" that has a frost depth of 12 to 15 ft?
Here in nyc area it's 4ft. I think somewhere around twice that
is near the extreme for the lower 48.
I think you're going off the deep end again......
Twenty grand to dig a 50ft ditch and install a sewer line
sounds mighty high to me, even for NJ. Even the 12K sounds
high. Just how long does any of this take with a backhoe?
Sure, you could have the pathological case, where there
is every obstruction imaginable in the way. But for
the typical house where you go across a lawn, a couple
bushes, maybe a sidewalk? $20K?
I seriously doubt very much ground water is going to get in
The FEDS ordered a complete end to storm water runoff into sanitary
sewers. some were co mingled from the start of sewers in the
pittsburgh area. previously sewer water overflowed into rivers which
provide drinking water and recreation.connecting downspouts to sewer
lines were common till recently. now every home gets die test before
because of the very hilly terrain many lines are super deep, for not
only freeze protection but natural drainage to sewer plants. even with
all this many areas have lift stations.
a friend looked at a bargain home it was super cheap except the sewer
line went out of the back of the home to a stream bed 200
feet ........ 20 grand to replace the collapsed line. he looked at
another home, it was wrongly connected to storm sewerrather than
sanitary sewer. 18 to 20 grand, very deep plus street must be dug up
and replaved by bonded registered contractors.
allegheny county has rules out the wazoole. and so does most of
20 grand to replace the collapsed line.
Sure, if it's 200 ft, I can see that. I'll bet DerbyDad's isn't
200ft though, which is more than 2x the distance of the
sewer line in any house I've lived in.
he looked at
Sure if it's 12 to 15 ft deep, which is what you claim they
are where you are located. And if the street has to be dug up too,
etc. But again, those are not the more typical case.
On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 08:47:03 -0700 (PDT), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
I can easily see the 12K. I had a sewer problem. The town came out
and checked their part and it was OK. I had a guy come and check my
end and they found the problem, cause by the electric company hitting
my sewer line with the new pole.
Backhoe, repair of the line was $3500. They only dug a 3" wide hole.
So much for Dig Safe. They told the utility where to drill.
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