Do It Yourself -- Not

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On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:55:36 -0700, keith wrote:

Yes, they are big, but I don't mind them so much because they usually look quite ornamental.

Yes, I can't rule that out :-) Ours are just a length of 3/4" pipe all the way through the case with aluminum fins around it. Next to useless in terms of heat output, but they still take up space which means you can't put something in front of them - in which case I'd much rather panel- style radiators which produce more heat and get it to where it's needed faster.

I could handle a ground-source heat pump here (too cold in winters for air-source to work) - I've got the land space for the coils. Problem at the moment is the costs, but that'll come down as more people have them.
Our baseboard electric's on a load-control setup (with the propane forced- air setup there to pick up the slack), which means it's something like 6c/ kWh to run - it works out slightly cheaper than propane, I think.

Yes, heat rises, so a heated ceiling's probably only useful if you're a gecko :-)

Thanks for posting those links - I'll have to look into fitting some of those outlets when I get around to rewiring our basement.
cheers
Jules
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On Aug 26, 8:35am, Jules Richardson

I think they're rather ugly. To each, I suppose.

That's what they look like, but built into one of the end elbows is a bleeder screw. They throw out a lot of heat, as long as they're kept clean. There is a lot of surface area on the fins and the water should be 180-190F.

The problem is that the efficiency is proportional to the temperature rise, so the air exits at *maybe* 80F, which means a lot of air has to be moved. It's *quite* drafty. Hydronic baseboards, OTOH, operate at 180-190F, so feel warmer without the drafts.

The thing to watch on electric baseboards is things blocking the units. They will cause a fire. Hydronic baseboards will not, so long drapes or furniture in front of them isn't a fire hazard.

Yeah, sorta. ;-)

If you don't have 240V appliances why bother? If you do, match their plug.
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... excessive snippage, probably ...

Actually, the drafts are a plus in my house. Say we have cabbage for dinner. With hydronic heat, I'd have to sit in my husband's "contrail" all evening. With forced air, I have some hope that it'll dissipate.
All joking aside, I've been wondering for quite a while if the air in a radiant-heat house gets stagnant. Since it's comparatively rare here in Michigan, I've no one local to ask.
Cindy Hamilton
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I'm sure it does. Of course, the more chemicals you put into the air, the more you breathe. Fingernail polish, smoking, various cooking, etc. It is often needed, to open windows, even in winter.
Few hot air systems I've seen have any kind of fresh air intake, so these houses suffer much the same.
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wrote:

...or spread.

Yes, houses can be sealed too tightly. "Contrails" aren't the worst possible problem. At least there is warning of the danger. ;-)
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You don't bleed steam radiators, silly. You bleed hydrionic ones. I lived for about ten years in a house with hydrionic heat system.
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A lot of them don't drive until 18 or older now as well.
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On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:50:01 -0700 (PDT), zzyzzx

Sounds like Zzyzzx, CA.
In Florida at 12 I had a work permit, 14 I drove in the day time alone. Took sister on night drives, because she was 16.
On, I bought my own car at 14 years of age.
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My son didn't drive until he was 18; no interest. I had to get him off is butt when my wife got sick and couldn't drive for six months. Taking her both to and from work got to be a big problem with my work schedule.

But you weren't born last night. ;-)
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On Aug 25, 8:54pm, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

That's just crazy! When I was a lass, getting your driver's license at 16 was a much-anticipated rite of passage. We didn't even have a car, and I lined right up to get mine.
Kids nowadays. What're'ya gonna do?
Cindy Hamilton
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wrote:

Yeah, I got my license about a month after I turned 16. No point in getting the license before my parents would let me take the car out alone. ;-) I was one of the only males in my high school that year to pass on the first try (the examiner liked the fact that I took the test with a stick ;).

Grow 'em up and move 'em out. He's now 31 and married. ;-)
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re: "No point in getting the license before my parents would let me take the car out alone."
Unless you had a job that paid more if you had a license.
I worked for a corner drug store in Queens, NYC that delivered prescriptions. When I was too young to drive (legally) I delivered them on my bicycle and got 25 cents a delivery, plus tips. The guys who could drive were making much more money because they could delivery many more prescriptions during their shifts. They could also go farther - into the better neighborhoods - which usually meant higher tips.
The drug store always had a leased car for deliveries and the older guys taught me how to drive long before I was legal.
"What's that smell?" "Uh, that would be the clutch. Good thing it's leased!"
As soon as I was able, I took my road test and started making the big bucks!
Someday I'll tell you the story of a leased car too trashed to be returned, a gallon of gas, a burning broom thrown like a spear and a small cliff.
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I'm getting the idea that you had more fun than I, when you were a kid. Burning up the lease car does sound like a bad decision, though.
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wrote:

If I wasn't allowed to drive alone, it didn't much matter if I had a job or not. It was only a little over a month after my 16th birthday that my mother decided I was ready.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305500/Do-Not-likely-youre-35--Survey-finds-young-people-DIY-dunces-rewire-plug.html?ITO 90#ixzz0xZu365qC
I only know these things because I "helped" in the remodel of my home. I fought my Father-unit tooth-and-nail the entire time I was living my teenangst-riddled years. He didn't know half as much as my friends and if he was able to provide a sample, I was quick to shoot it down as a poor sample.
As I got older, of course things changed, but I was still too slow to catch on just how much he knew before he passed on. Saddest day I realized was the day I called my Sainted Mother(tm) and asked, "So how do I do this again?"
"That was a lesson Dad tried to teach you. You didn't want to listen."
The same parents, with similar attitudes during the same times, are lamenting their lack of listening skills because their kids have never seen tools or had experiences that they did. <shrug>
Luckily for me, the foreman on the job saw potential and was willing to "teach" me. It wasn't so much teach as letting me do it wrong until I was totally frustrated and then saying, "I'd recommend doing it *this* way..." Money and time meant a larger paycheck for him and a collej edumacation from Hard Knocks U. for me but it was worth it.
The Ranger
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On 8/25/2010 1:16 AM, The Ranger wrote:

My father *did* lack those mechanical skills with the exception of he knew how to roof, courtesy of *his* father. But he generally needed to call an electrician to swap out light bulbs, etc. His VCR always flashed 12:00.
Amazingly, he had Command Pilot wings and operated 4 engined transports in the USAF. Of course, there he had a flight engineer to keep things up.
But my dad passed on something more important than mechanical skills (which I developed just the same, courtesy of curiosity, DIY shows and a lot of mistakes): a healthy skepticism for what I read and hear. I can't say that he taught me how to think necessarily but he encouraged me to examine what I did think for flaws.
It's made me a better man. And I change my own light bulbs, thank you.
Jay
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On 08/24/2010 09:47 PM, HeyBub wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305500/Do-Not-likely-youre-35--Survey-finds-young-people-DIY-dunces-rewire-plug.html?ITO 90#ixzz0xZu365qC
I'm glad that people don't feel comfortable hanging wallpaper :)
FWIW I'm just barely outside that demographic and I consider myself rather handy albeit not an expert.
nate
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I wish the previous owners of my house had been wall paper adverse. I'm taking down the paper in one of the bathrooms now and it seems to have been applied directly to the dry wall. Grrrrrrr.
Mike
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It's a crime against humanity.

My previous house had the wallpaper applied directly to the sheetrock. What an unholy mess. It would have been easier to tear out all the sheetrock and start over. When we looked for our current house, wallpaper was a significant deduction.
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When I first became a home owner I knew nothing about how to repair stuff. It took a long time but now, after 30+ years of living in this house, I feel I can repair almost anything.
Kind of like I never knew much about repairing computers until I bought a Packard Bell back in the 80's.
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