Yawn... I didn't see anyone here say anything different. OF course you left out the part about how it's on a similar size platform and shares components with cars costing $17K, yet the Volt costs $42K.
If you believe handing out $12K subsidies to build cars that are economically unviable is going to fuel our economic recovery, then maybe we should start paying people to dig holes and fill them back in.
Yawn... I didn't see anyone here say anything different. OF course you left out the part about how it's on a similar size platform and shares components with cars costing $17K, yet the Volt costs $42K.
If you believe handing out $12K subsidies to build cars that are economically unviable is going to fuel our economic recovery, then maybe we should start paying people to dig holes and fill them back in.
I think that is exactly what this administration has in mind with it's never ending unemployment "insurance"
For every FIVE on unemployment theres just ONE job.
Unemployment is necessary. Without the obama stimulus unemployment today would be 25%
For every FIVE on unemployment theres just ONE job.
Unemployment is necessary. Without the obama stimulus unemployment today would be 25%
Bullshit, got a lawn mower, you got a job, got two hands, you got a job, got some initiative you got a job. Got nothin but excuses, you can stand on line with the rest of the bottom feeders and take obama scraps
The prius battery is twice as much as 14 golf cart batteries and still does not provide nearly the same AH rating (range). I suspect the only way you know a Prius battery is going bad is the fuel consumption rises (they need more frequent charging so the engine runs more). None of this is really relevant to a pure plug in. In that case the owner is doing the battery management and they are more likely to run it until it drops, which is tough on batteries. Electric cars are really a pretty mature technology but it is all being done in back yards and home garages. I spent a lot of time looking at the experiences of people who have had electric cars since the Carter administration. The only new thing I see is a newer type of battery and computerized battery management. The LiON is better because of weight per amp hour and better life but that comes at a significant cost difference. It may actually be more expensive 10 years out and it certainly is in the first 6 years.
Or bike it in 15 on a good day.
Gas here in Ontario was up over $1.12 per liter on the weekend. That's something like $4.23 a US Gallon.
People _wanted_ the 5% rate under Bush, but would have settled for the 8% the Obama administration predicted.
So you say. It's impossible to prove "what might have been."
You recall that, without the "stimulus," the Obama administration predicted a peak of 8% unemployment.
well republicans ran on balancing the budget, and cutting spending.
So far republicans have agreed to lower taxes for the super wealthy, and more spending...
60 minutes had Bernacke report unemployment near 10% for next 3 years....If tea party and republicans really cut spending much they will crash our economy, since ggovernment is about 1/3 of our economy.
No doubt thats because manufacturing has been shrinking for a generation:(
Nonsense. It should have gone through bankruptcy court like any other corporation.
More nonsense. Even if so, the other manufacturers would have taken up the slack.
With *taxpayer* money. That is *not* paying anything "back" to anyone.
Clueless.
Totally clueless.
Electric cars were a "mature technology" in 1915
My electric ran on lead-acid batteries and a DC motor, just like an old Baker. The cost for equivalent range on LiOn batteries would be over 5o times as high, and they were not available when I had mine. The chager would be more expensive too.
For the same weight, the range would have been WAY more, along with the price.
Newer motor control systems are a lot more efficient too - and a top line PWM FET controller today is about half the price an old GE SCR or ALLIS Transistorized controller was in the '80s. (and a lot smaller, lighter, and more efficient - with more features)
In looking around I don't see much big bucks going to fix Prius battery problems. Don't know much about them, but my curiosity about their batteries got me looking on the net. I see "rebuilt" batteries going for $500. I don't really want to know any more. The only pure electrics I see coming on line are the Leaf and Tesla. The Volt had a big advantage over them, since it can be run as electric only, but the engine gives it unlimited range. Pretty sure the target audience is the same - those with short commutes and low daily mileage. I don't see why a person who often puts +100 daily miles on a car would buy any of them, but some will, and push them past what they're intended for. We'll see what attracts a bigger market and how they pan out.
Think I read the Volt won't go below +60% of charge before the management kicks in the IC.
Economy of scale has to kick in. Until H Ford started the assembly line hardly anybody could afford a car. Maybe that got charcoal and BBQ going good too. From a little seed, a big tree...
--Vic
For a young jock, maybe. For a fat old fart like me, not much faster than walking. 7.6 miles, about half uphill. Even 20 years ago when my knees and butt were in better shape, I'd have to walk it up a couple of those hills. With the traffic and idiot drivers on the roads in question, I want steel around me. Not to mention, of course, that this is frigging Michigan, and winter is 5+ months long here. Only a fool rides a bike in traffic on a dark road.
The bus used to run to the apartments I lived in before I bought this house, about 3/4 a crow mile closer to work. I rode it a few times when car was in the shop. 2-3 of those times, I got tired of waiting for the transfer bus, and walked the last 3/4 mile uphill to the office. Bus system in this town is dying- they have collapsed the routes back to the ones that had any actual ridership, mainly in the older poorer parts of town.
I'm 58 and not what you call a prime specimen - bad knees and hips and shoulders and ablut 20 extra lbs. I've got an electric assist bike - just a low powered Schwinn . When the office was 8km away it took me 18 minutes to get to the office on the bike, and about 10 by car. Never done it by Grand River Transit, but a good guess would be 45 minutes to an hour with 2 transfers.
Moved the office -3km now but the same amount of hills (hey, Kitchener was called SandHills before it became Berlin, then Kitchener, so you KNOW it's not flat), I can do it in 7 minutes if I hit all the lights, about 4 with the car (the bike trail is a wee tad shorter in distance and 3 less lights) - and THAT is better than a 20 minute bus ride.
RBM, you know as well as I do that there is always work available. I have no problem finding work, it usually finds me. My problem is trying to overcome medical problems to get out of bed and do the work. I often have to suppress the urge to slap a healthy lad who says he can't find work.
TDD
Hummm, 1/3 of the economy? The government should never be a substantial part of the economy because there is no such thing as government money. The government doesn't produce wealth, all it can do is destroy it.
TDD
I agree the technology can take advantage of better batteries and better motors but the payback still is way out there ... assuming you never wreck it.
The two ton elephant in the room is still the heat and the air conditioner. Where are you getting 20,000 BTUH? That is about what a regular HAVC system is, both ways. In a permanently temperate climate you may be able to just open the windows but you are not driving where water freezes or anywhere in the sun belt. Actually most of the US population thinks A/C is a must in the summer.
Your $50,000 Volt might be like a 56 Morgan. Fun to drive on a nice spring day but you are not going out in the snow.
I think there is a lawyer tax built into the price of batteries that will only get worse. You can also call it "environmental cost" if it makes you feel better ;-)
Batteries always involve troublesome processes and exotic chemicals. It is the nature of the magic that lets you put the power of a couple gallons of gasoline in a little box. We use oil because it seems to be the best way to carry a lot of power around.
Maybe the whole prob;em would have been solved if Tesla's idea of beaming power right to you actually worked.
I do seem to remember the old air cooled VW Beetle having an option for a gasoline burning auxiliary heater for those really cold climates. I suppose a propane heater for the new electric cars and perhaps a big insulated compartment for ice to use to air condition them in warmer weather. People seem to forget the simplest details when it comes to alternative energy used for transportation. :-)
TDD
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