Apparently the valves are all water flow based.
The salesman even went to great length to explain how the ceramic disks that determine the 600 gallon regeneration period are based only on usage and not ever on time.
He also mentioned that the water is always the already-cleaned water so that the disks themselves don't get gunked up.
Fifty bucks is one thing, but this seems to be $6000 bucks.
Googling, I found this price which is $6,500 installed for the Kinetico
2060s (which I assume is the same or similar to the Kinetico 2060 I was quoted for $6,000).Seems high though - for 'just' a water softener ...
That's what I'm thinking.
It seems to be just plumbing. Nothing else.
I called Kinetico for a price quote for them to ship the tanks to me. They said they'd get back to me but I have not received the call yet (it was later in the day and I'm in a different time zone).
I am. That's why I'm asking you guys and gals! :)
I do know the water is hard as I can see the white stuff on the bottom of the kettle after about a week of daily coffee making.
I can also see the white stuff in the garden hose:
You're the second person to mention you replace 1 calcium with 2 sodiums.
Does the water taste salty?
Given the three things I care about most are:
May I ask: Q: Would the double sodium water do those three things also?
We discussed that. The salesman said he'd tie the softener to the input AT the house. He said most pools are filled from the irrigation system which is NOT tied to the house (he said).
I didn't design the house so I don't know but we could test it by hitting the shutoff valve inside the house, he told me.
I didn't know what ISTR meant so I googled it. I Seem To Recall ...
The salesman told me to divide by 17 to convert so, in your case, 150 ppm divided by 17 = about 9 grains of 'hardness'.
I, like you, have no idea if that's calcium or a mixture but I certainly see pure white stuff as in this picture of my garden hose:
The salesman told me that the ones at Costco and Sears are membrane filters and he said that, at 12 to 14 grains, they would get clogged in months.
I don't know if that's true or not though ...
Ah, that's about 1/3 the price I was quoted in the Silicon Valley!
This one he tried to sell me would be programmed for 600 gallons. So those numbers jive.
Thanks for confirming that.
The 2060 Kinetico system 'is' a two-tank (actually three when you count the brine tank) where one works then it switches to the second one for cleaning and then back to the first - all with the water-operated valves on top.
I forgot to mention that the salesman 'sized' the system based on the size of the house and the pipes (e.g., I have smallish 1 inch or maybe
1.5 inch pipes he said).You need to do some googling. There are plenty of web sites that can educate you better than I can. However, some comments from my experience:
I never felt that the treated water tasted salty.
I had 22 grains of hardness. The metal spray arms on my dishwasher were white from the calcium deposits and clogged regularly. After installing a water softener, no more issues.
A water softener should be sized based on the number of people, overall water usage and the water hardness. Pipe size mainly determines the controller valve inlet size and the max flow possible. If you plan on supplying soft water to your pool, you will need to add that to your overall water usage. You will need a larger unit if that is your plan. Most installations are set up to only treat inside water usage. If sodium is a concern, you might want to run an untreated supply to the kitchen.
I seriously doubt that hard water will ever clog your pipes. It will cause buildup where the water can evaporate such as in the dishwater, toilets, sinks, faucets, etc. I don't know about the water heater. I suspect you could get some buildup (not a foot!) and lose some efficiency and maybe a little bit of life.
They will tell you about all the money you will save on cleaning products. In reality, you should be able to use less detergent in the dishwasher and washing machine but the saving are not that great. Your shower doors will be easier to clean.
My first water softener was from Sears for $500. Last about 7+ years until the resin tank started to fail. Worked fine, never clogged. I would not recommend Sears. The second unit was purchased on the web. This one had a Fleck valve with demand driven regeneration. Cost about $800 about 4 years ago and should last 10+ years. Very easy to install but you do need power. The support from the dealer was excellent.
You will need way more than 15 pounds of salt.
Regeneration is usually done at night. During that time (roughly 1-2 hours), you will have untreated water. Who cares if at 2 am that the water is hard.
These systems tend to reliable. If the controller fails, they can be repaired or replaced. The resin does have a life span and can also be replaced.
My recommendation is to consider buying on the web or maybe a local dealer. Find a dealer that will help you properly size the unit. You do not want to vastly oversize or undersize the unit. From what I remember, the unit should be sized so that regeneration happens every
7-14 days. Stay with a high quality controller (Fleck is one popular brand). Install it yourself or hire a plumber or handyman to do for you. Make sure that you have a means to bypass the system if service is needed. A lot of controllers have this as part of the system. Unless there is more to the story, a $6000 dollar system is overkill.
my dad and step mom have high blood pressure so the drinking water is run thru a osmosis filter.
honestly i cant tell a difference in salt taste between osmosis and softened.
the most interesting trouble they had was a osmosis filter system failure while away on vacation. their home is in phoenix one floor on a slab. they had water leaking out the doors when they got home from a week cruise. the house had over a foot of water filling it.
they had trouble opening the doors, i think they had to break a window to get in. the water pressure held all the doors shut. this was years ago. a tank seam burst
dad wasnt upset homeowners insurance and the osmosis manufacturer paid for wall repairs, a complete repaint, all new carpeting, a bunch of new furniture, and a week at a nice hotel with jacuzzi while everything was fixed..
On Thu, 17 May 2012 20:54:00 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K." wrote Re Do I need $6,000 water softener for
12 to 14 grains of calcium in well water?:
This will work just as well:
Yes, business is slow right now. Mostly it should be 7500 gallons. This is used to feed two industrial boilers. I buy salt 2000 pounds at a time to.
Check out what a big hotel uses. Or bigger industry.
For comparison, check an Ecowat4er dealer for a price
Most important part of a system is the valves. Cheap one fail often, good ones rarely.
I've heard bad stories about Culligan and would avoid them. They also went bankrupt a while back.
I would first get the water tested somewhere else -- preferably not by someone who wants to sell you something. Or you can do it yourself with test strips that the "home improvement" stores often have free for the taking next to their water softeners; these may not be super-accurate, but they should at least put you in the right ball park.
Our softened water doesn't taste salty, but we take our drinking water from a point before the water softener, then filter it to remove crud (mostly rust) and chlorine. I guess that won't work for you, because you are concerned about deposits in your kettle -- but they should be able to be removed with vinegar.
I think that there are under-sink water-filtration systems that incorporate reverse osmosis as well. Maybe one of those would work for your drinking/coffee-making water.
Perce
I pay $4.88 CDN plus sales tax for a 20 lb bag at Walmart or one of the local grocery stores
It may be it may not be? I was hoping he'd tell me the business though. I just wanted to know what they used the water for, cleaning or brewing beer or whatever. :)
Yes you can. For about $600-$900 plus installation. If you can cut and join pipes you can DIY.
Get one with a Fleck valve.
Read these...
You probably never will hear from them. That's because many water softener "companies" are independent distributers...they buy from the manufacturer and sell retail at whatever price they want to set. Which is often obscenely high. As is any future service or parts you may need from them.
As an example, my idiot ex-step father in law bought a Rainsoft when he built his house in 1996. Paid $3000 for it, $1000 down, rest over a couple of years. Paid another $1000 in interest. Then 3-4 years ago, he replaced it with another Rainsoft. Actually, TWO rainsofts...one for iron, one for softening. He didn't need the iron thing as softening will also remove the amount of iton we have around here.
This time he paid $8500. Yes, EIGHT THOUSAND AND DOLLARS. Got a deal though, the nice salesman took his old one in trade and knocked off 5 grand. There is a sucker born every minute.
My advice: avoid any water softener company. Buy a unit on line or at a local store.
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