Do I need $6,000 water softener for 12 to 14 grains of calcium in well water?

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Arklin K. wrote:

Read these... http://www.apswater.com/how_to_select_a_water_softener.asp
http://www.apswater.com/Water_Softener_Calculator.asp?people=2&bathrooms=1&showerflow=2.5&grainshard &iron=5&perperson€
--

dadiOH
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wrote:

The softener need to be adjusted for the new water mix if it is higher in calcium or other minerals. It must be regenerated more frequently too.
A good softener properly adjusted for your water will give zero hardness.

Don't buy on price alone. A good unit properly setup and serviced by a reputable company is far more important than saving fifty bucks up front. Find a reliable seller.
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On 5/17/2012 10:55 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Many good models have programming that can take care of the guess work now. You can program in the hardness and the softener will monitor flow rates daily and adjust it's regeneration accordingly
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 22:55:14 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Fifty bucks is one thing, but this seems to be $6000 bucks.
Googling, I found this price which is $6,500 installed for the Kinetico 2060s (which I assume is the same or similar to the Kinetico 2060 I was quoted for $6,000).
Seems high though - for 'just' a water softener ...
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On Fri, 18 May 2012 04:40:44 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."

For comparison, check an Ecowat4er dealer for a price http://www.ecowater.com /
That is the system we have at work. Very reliable for about 10 years now. We use thousands of gallons a day.
Most important part of a system is the valves. Cheap one fail often, good ones rarely.
I've heard bad stories about Culligan and would avoid them. They also went bankrupt a while back.
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** If there are no special skills involved you'll save a LOT of money doing it yourself.
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Dan Espen

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I probably should have added -- my water softener uses salt pellets. I check it monthly to be sure it doesn't need more but it doesn't use a lot of the salt. It is hooked up to electricity some way because it has a dial with the time, the time to re-generate (2 a.m.) and some other things. Like I said, we got a water softener like the one that broke so it wasn't a big thing to replace it. Ask your neighbors what they do. I live in Florida where people coming around, offering to test your water and finding all kinds of awful things in it is a common problem. The newspaper and TVs have a lot of stories about the scams. So do be careful -- don't get taken advantage of.
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 16:12:03 -0700, Dottie wrote:

I am. That's why I'm asking you guys and gals! :)
I do know the water is hard as I can see the white stuff on the bottom of the kettle after about a week of daily coffee making.
I can also see the white stuff in the garden hose:

So, I can 'assume' what's in the pipes and in the water heaters ...
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 18:08:45 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

That's what I'm thinking.
It seems to be just plumbing. Nothing else.
I called Kinetico for a price quote for them to ship the tanks to me. They said they'd get back to me but I have not received the call yet (it was later in the day and I'm in a different time zone).
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Arklin K. wrote:

You probably never will hear from them. That's because many water softener "companies" are independent distributers...they buy from the manufacturer and sell retail at whatever price they want to set. Which is often obscenely high. As is any future service or parts you may need from them.
As an example, my idiot ex-step father in law bought a Rainsoft when he built his house in 1996. Paid $3000 for it, $1000 down, rest over a couple of years. Paid another $1000 in interest. Then 3-4 years ago, he replaced it with another Rainsoft. Actually, TWO rainsofts...one for iron, one for softening. He didn't need the iron thing as softening will also remove the amount of iton we have around here.
This time he paid $8500. Yes, EIGHT THOUSAND AND DOLLARS. Got a deal though, the nice salesman took his old one in trade and knocked off 5 grand. There is a sucker born every minute.
My advice: avoid any water softener company. Buy a unit on line or at a local store.
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dadiOH
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Arklin,
Kinetico makes very good water softeners but there are many that are much cheaper. Sears has softeners on sale often. $600 for installation? Thats pretty high for a simple plumbing job. Get more quotes. These are ion exchange devices. You'll be replacing the Calcium with twice as much Sodium. Sodium is a lot more soluble but you'll still have some crud build up where water dries. I'm not sure how having a pool affects your problem but if your softener only delivers 600 gal. and then needs to recharge, you'll be filling your pool for a long time
Dave M.
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:12:26 -0400, Dave M. wrote:

You're the second person to mention you replace 1 calcium with 2 sodiums.
Does the water taste salty?
Given the three things I care about most are: 1. Clogging the pipes 2. Clogging the hot water heater 3. Staining the kettle and glass shower
May I ask: Q: Would the double sodium water do those three things also?

We discussed that. The salesman said he'd tie the softener to the input AT the house. He said most pools are filled from the irrigation system which is NOT tied to the house (he said).
I didn't design the house so I don't know but we could test it by hitting the shutoff valve inside the house, he told me.
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Arklin K. wrote:

The water isn't salty, it has sodium carbonate in it - very little - not sodium chloride. There is no taste. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate
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dadiOH
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On Fri, 18 May 2012 04:48:00 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."

"We"? Do that tomorrow. Without him.
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On 05/17/12 04:54 pm, Arklin K. wrote:

I don't know how much of our water hardness is due to calcium and how much is due to other minerals, but ISTR that our "total hardness" is about 150ppm. Whatever the cause of our hardness, a WaterBoss softener costing less than $400 a few years ago, that I installed myself, seems to take care of everything. Uses a $4 bag of salt every few months.
Perce
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:53:36 -0400, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

I didn't know what ISTR meant so I googled it. I Seem To Recall ...
The salesman told me to divide by 17 to convert so, in your case, 150 ppm divided by 17 = about 9 grains of 'hardness'.
I, like you, have no idea if that's calcium or a mixture but I certainly see pure white stuff as in this picture of my garden hose:

I "assume" that's calcium. The salesman said it was calcium. But he only did one drop test which turned the water from red to blue in 12 to 14 drops where he said every drop was 1 grain of calcium.
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On 05/18/12 12:52 am, Arklin K. wrote:

I would first get the water tested somewhere else -- preferably not by someone who wants to sell you something. Or you can do it yourself with test strips that the "home improvement" stores often have free for the taking next to their water softeners; these may not be super-accurate, but they should at least put you in the right ball park.
Our softened water doesn't taste salty, but we take our drinking water from a point before the water softener, then filter it to remove crud (mostly rust) and chlorine. I guess that won't work for you, because you are concerned about deposits in your kettle -- but they should be able to be removed with vinegar.
I think that there are under-sink water-filtration systems that incorporate reverse osmosis as well. Maybe one of those would work for your drinking/coffee-making water.
Perce
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On Fri, 18 May 2012 06:22:11 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

I was thinking that too. For one thing, there are probably standard sized drops and small drops. Or easier yet, he could have diluted whatever he's dropping into the water, so the drops could be standard size.
I'm not saying he did those things, but like you say, he is trying to sell him something. The OP needs al test by someone who isnt'.

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On Thu, 17 May 2012 17:40:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

It's a good thing you mentioned that. I got estimates once. The guy said $1600. I said, Really? He said, Yup. I said, Are you sure? He said Yes. So I figured I had 3 estimates and that should be enough.
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On Thu, 17 May 2012 22:00:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
I don't think so.
I stopped watching his first 15 minutes about 3 years ago when he increased his vulgarity. It wasn't gradual afaict, but a decision to say things that previously he wouldn't have said.
So now I only watch the second 15 minutes and usually only Headlines, which is almost always on Monday.
I don't remember hearing it from him more than 3 years ago either. At most I only watched sometimes.
I think I thought of it on my own. In person, I'm a very funny guy. Really.
I was in the hospital for 2 days about a month ago, and one nurse started laughing as soon as she entered my room, before I said anything.. I asked why. She said, I know you're going to be funny.

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