Do I need $6,000 water softener for 12 to 14 grains of calcium in well water? (2023 Update)

[Arklin K.]

Following up on the crud on my pool walls, I called a water softener company over who arrived today to give me a $6,000 quote to put in a water softener system in my garage.

Kinetico model 2060 home water system (two tanks + a brine tank, no electricity, self cleaning) $600 installation + $5400 including tax.

Here is a picture of the 'crud' on my garden hose:

The guy tested my water at 12 to 14 grains of Calcium (he said he tested a neighbor at 25 grains plus half a grain of iron which he says makes it

30 grains). He said a grain is 17 ppm so 14 grains is about the 200 ppm calcium hardness that Leslie's Pool tested the well water at.

He said up to 3 grains is soft, 6 grains is medium and 9 grains is hard, so, he said, mine is super hard.

He provided a litany of bad things that will happen, from bubbling hot water tanks with a foot of calcium on the bottom to clogged pipes and dirty shower stalls, spotty dishes, dirty clothes, and dirty cars.

The only things I 'see' are the pool has Calcium on the walls, and the kitchen kettle gets a white coating on the bottom after a week of use. I also hear the hot water tank bubbling (which he says is due to chunks of the foot-thick coating cracking and then the water hits the super hot bottom of the hot water heater and turns into steam).

While these are not good things, can't I get a home water softener for less (much less?) than six thousand bucks installed?

Oh, he said I could rent it, at $600 installation + $55 a month.

[Dottie]

The county changed our water recipe sometime last year and now we have a lot more calcium and lime deposits than before. We have a water softener - for the whole house - and it had always worked just fine. It still does for the most part but I have scrub to get the white spots off the sink and use Jet Dry in the dishwasher. My neighbors have the same problem -- and they have water softeners, too. The point is -- don't expect the water softener to stop your problem. It may make it less -- but that's not for sure. And my water softener - from Home Depot - was installed by my late husband. He was not the greatest handyman so if he could do it you probably could, too. He replaced another one -- so it wasn't something he had to do from scratch. I don't remember the exact cost but do know it was no where as expensive as what you are paying. It's a GE. Suggest you get several bids --

[Arklin K.]

Interesting. The salesman said that it would take the calcium down to zero grains and that every 600 gallons it would replenish itself.

He said the only thing I'd need to do is put fifteen pounds or so of salt into the brine tank twice a year (for the reflush every 600 gallons).

He said the family uses about 75 gallons per person so that's why there were two tanks.

From what I can gather, there is the existing pipe going into the tank, plus a bypass valve to bypass the system for repairs plus the system itself.

Since the system doesn't need electricity, all it needs is plumbing - which I can do, unless there's something special needed.

Now to find an equivalent water softener that can handle 14 grains of calcium (is that really a lot like the guy said ... or just normal)?

[Dan Espen]

** If there are no special skills involved you'll save a LOT of money doing it yourself.

[Dottie]

I probably should have added -- my water softener uses salt pellets. I check it monthly to be sure it doesn't need more but it doesn't use a lot of the salt. It is hooked up to electricity some way because it has a dial with the time, the time to re-generate (2 a.m.) and some other things. Like I said, we got a water softener like the one that broke so it wasn't a big thing to replace it. Ask your neighbors what they do. I live in Florida where people coming around, offering to test your water and finding all kinds of awful things in it is a common problem. The newspaper and TVs have a lot of stories about the scams. So do be careful -- don't get taken advantage of.

[Dave M.]

Arklin,

Kinetico makes very good water softeners but there are many that are much cheaper. Sears has softeners on sale often. $600 for installation? Thats pretty high for a simple plumbing job. Get more quotes. These are ion exchange devices. You'll be replacing the Calcium with twice as much Sodium. Sodium is a lot more soluble but you'll still have some crud build up where water dries. I'm not sure how having a pool affects your problem but if your softener only delivers 600 gal. and then needs to recharge, you'll be filling your pool for a long time

Dave M.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I don't know how much of our water hardness is due to calcium and how much is due to other minerals, but ISTR that our "total hardness" is about 150ppm. Whatever the cause of our hardness, a WaterBoss softener costing less than $400 a few years ago, that I installed myself, seems to take care of everything. Uses a $4 bag of salt every few months.

Perce

[micky]

It's a good thing you mentioned that. I got estimates once. The guy said $1600. I said, Really? He said, Yup. I said, Are you sure? He said Yes. So I figured I had 3 estimates and that should be enough.

[krw]

A softener replaces calcium ions with sodium ions, one for two. If water is let to stand, sodium will be left (instead of calcium), causing spots.

Automatic regeneration. It's generally set up to do it at night when you're not likely to use water. It is noisy, if you care about such things.

Not buying that! I was using a hundred pounds a month.

It's more than normal, since most city water is already treated but it's not a "lot" for a well. Thirty or even forty grains is a lot, but not unheard of. I few years ago, we lived in an apartment where the calcium came out as rocks.

*THAT* was hard water.

[Duesenberg]

I have an ECOWater softener and I would NEVER use it for pool or garden. Our water is 28 grain and the softener is for indoor water use only.

I would never buy a softner from a big box store or sears. Do your reasearch, many of them are poorly built with poor quality valves. Many of them are built by Ecowater, HOWEVER Ecowater build their own branded with 5 layers of resin and much better quality valves than the 1 layer of resin for the sears/home depot crap.

Ours has filtration and we paid $2100 installed. We expect it to last

25 years. Make sure you do your research on Valves for water softeners

Our softener is programmed to flush out every 550 gallons. Frankly I wouldn't waste softened water on outdoor use and it's not reccommended for gardening..

Should mention that Culligan has had bankruptcy issues in the past and you may have to research your local dealer. Some are great and some are poor but I bet most are better that the big box stores.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The softener need to be adjusted for the new water mix if it is higher in calcium or other minerals. It must be regenerated more frequently too.

A good softener properly adjusted for your water will give zero hardness.

Don't buy on price alone. A good unit properly setup and serviced by a reputable company is far more important than saving fifty bucks up front. Find a reliable seller.

[Duesenberg]

Apologies for the uncorrected spelling... I hit send too soon...

[Ed Pawlowski]

He's right, but that sounds light on the salt.

It needs power for the timer and maybe a synchron motor for the valves is so equipped. In most cases, you can just plug in a power supply and can even use an extension cord.

A bit high, but not a big deal. At work, we handle 21 grains and use

5000 gallons a day. Properly sized, it is not a big deal.

[Tony Hwang]

One thing for sure is you need two resin tank system so always softened water is ready w/o pause for regeneration. Kinetico is like that and it does not need power to run it.

[Duesenberg]

I use 100 gallons of water a day average. I add 80 pounds of salt to our EcoWater 3500 every 4 months. It's programmed to regenerate every 550 gallons.

We use Windsor System Saver pellets only.

[Duesenberg]

Many good models have programming that can take care of the guess work now. You can program in the hardness and the softener will monitor flow rates daily and adjust it's regeneration accordingly

[Duesenberg]

5000 gallons a day??

[krw]

You think 5000 gallons is a lot for a decent sized business?

[Arklin K.]

Wow. He did NOT mention that!

He gave me a litany of the bad things that were happening due to the calcium, from:

- spots on dishes

- film on shower stalls

- clogged pipes

- clogged faucets

- crusty kitchen kettles

- less efficient water heater due to a foot of calcium

- less efficient laundry soap & fabric softener

- better tasting water

Of all those, which would replacing calcium-water with sodium-water actually solve?

BTW, about the only ones I care about are the kitchen kettle, the pipes, and the water heater.

[Arklin K.]

How much does 240 pounds (80x3) of salt for a full year cost?