do all projects end like this?

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Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one, also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet. Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. Well, there's no sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the girlie wants that. To add insult to injury, was laying on my back looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel, the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a new faucet AND SINK...
Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.
nate
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yeah sadly jobs do grow, espically when stuff is let go or old. look at the brite side a plumber would of likely charged 500 bucks
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I wouldn't call the last plumber to come out here for anything; I think he is responsible for at least some of the mess. I know that there was a minor water incident down the wall below the kitchen when the PO's had the dishwasher replaced immediately prior to us looking at the house; apparently he thought hose clamps on the drain tubing were optional... sheesh. There still were no clamps on the hose from the air gap to the tailpiece, I added some when I replaced the hose.
Which brings me to the question - I have a single, 6" deep sink right now. I'm thinking of possibly replacing it with an 8" deep one, or maybe even cutting the hole in the countertop bigger and putting in a double sink.
questions:
1) in a small kitchen, is a double sink really worthwhile, or is it generally not fully utilized? Obviously this is one of those personal-experience type questions. I'm fairly certain she would prefer a deeper one as well, and I do think it might keep the counter neater by minimizing splashing.
2) I think the girlie would really prefer the look of a white porcelain enameled sink to another stainless steel one. Do these tend to hold up well without scratching? The only houses I've lived in with them came with them and by the time I got there were of such an age that I couldn't really tell if any new scratches got added.
3) All of the sinks that we looked at at the Despot (only place that was open on a Saturday evening) only had four holes for fixtures. Is an air gap actually required for a dishwasher drain? ISTR in my parents' house that there was no air gap, the drain hose was simply looped up high and then came down into the tailpiece of the sink drain. Or is it just SOP for an installer to cut another hole if a dishwasher is installed? If so, how would one do that in a cast iron sink?
nate
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We have a double sink and never use one half. Most of hte time it is coved witha cutting board to get more counter space. I'd go for deeper. Each haf is not as wide as a single sink too makingit even worse. We hate it.

Get a good porcelain covered cast iron. Cheap enamed stell ones tend to chip easier.

Sme local codes call for it. I don't have one and never had a problem.
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alt.home.repair:

Personal preference prevails here. Deeper is better. One big or two small sinks each have advantages. I'd rather clean a paint roller cover in a large sink. I'd rather soak a dirty pot and simultaneously prepare supper in two sinks. At least go for a larger sink.
I like the looks of the big/small combos that have a garbage disposal on one side in a small sink, but I've never used one.

Again, personal preference. Porcelain shows marks from pots that have to be scrubbed off. Stainless gets the same marks, but they're permanent, plus they PUT marks on things. My home has a black composite sink of some kind, and I love it. It marks like porcelain, but they don't show much, so cleaning can wait. It doesn't make marks on dishes. I've looked, but I can't find any manufacturing information. I'd like to know so I can recommend it to clients.

Another poster pointed out that code requires air gaps in some locations. My city doesn't require them, so I fill the hole with a soap dispenser. Some people fill it with instant hot water or filtered water faucets.
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Nate Nagel wrote:

When hand-washing dishes I like a double sink. But then its not really used except to let the dishes drip dry in on a wire rack that I have laying across the second sink. Way back when I was single and had roommates we use one sink to hold dirty dishes and the other one free to use as a sink.

A lot of newer faucets have the integrated pull out sprayer. I find these better and more useful than the old awkward hose sprayers which rarely got used except to spay me in the face when I grab it wrong...
These integrated types take up less holes. Some models use only one hole total for spigot/sprayer and H&C water valves. So changing the faucet to one of these may give you extra holes for the air gap. At one house filled 2 unused holes with pump dispensers for liquid hand soap and dish washing liquid. Then she wanted a hand lotion dispenser...
The fixture I have now has pullout sprayer and covers 3 holes. 1 is soap dispenser (built into the fixture flange), 1 for everything else, 1 hole is not used but covered by the flange.
Having to have an air gap depends on how the dishwasher and drain is installed. I don't remember the details. Something to do with how high the drain hose is in relation to the connection point. Look at the dishwasher installation manual. The last dishwasher I installed did not need one as per the installation instructions. I believe I used the high loop method. As someone else said codes may require one regardless. I've seen some air gaps put into the counter top would not recommend that.
Kevin

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Kevin Ricks wrote:

<snip>
I was kind of shying away from the faucets with the pull out sprayer; I guess I just kind of considered it something else to go wrong. I was anticipating everything getting floppy and leaky with age, is this a real concern? I don't know anyone that has had one for more than a year or two, so I don't know if I'm worried about nothing or not. I guess I was just assuming I would be using the separate pull out sprayer for "KISS" reasons.
Looks like I will have to replace a couple valves too... the hot water shutoff valve seems to be weeping past the stem (big shocker, house is 60 years old) so the snowballing of the project continues...
I wish I had the intestinal fortitude to attempt rebuilding the valves in place, but I just don't have the experience that tells me I can do it. Nothing says "excitement" like soldering while on your back inches away from wood paneling...
nate
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If the valves are very old, forget rebuilding, it will be a PITA at best. If they are relatively new, replacing the cartridge is simple enough to do.
I used to visit my MIL a couple of times a year and she had similar situations like a dripping faucet. I'd have fixed it for her, but after all the years I'd probably have to replace everything out to the street so I never tried it. If I had a week, it would be easier to just replace everything along the way. Best thing she ever did was finally sell the house "as is" and moved in with us. .
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alt.home.repair:

If you have available pipe sticking out of the wall, you can cut the valve off and replace it with a compression fitting -- no sweating pipes.
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ahh before replacing just try tightening the packing nut a quarter turn. this will compress the packing a little and end the drip.
works over 99% of the time.
if you must replace the valve install ball valves, they cost a bit more but are far superior, easy to close fast, and last forever
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We had one for 8 years that we replaced for decor reasons in a remodel. It worked fine all those years. The current one has about 4 years on it and going strong. I wouldn't have a kitchen without one.

My rule on old house plumbing is that, once I have started to rebuild a sink or whatever, to tear it out to the wall (or to the pipes coming out of the wall) and rebuild forward. I've found it easier and more dependable to put all new parts in.
-- Doug
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Get the biggest single basin sink that you can fit in your cabinets. If you have a dishwasher, there is no reason to have two basins. Period. Home Depot is not the place to shop for kitchen sinks.
Read your dishwasher manual for how to loop your drain line.
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There is a VERY good reason to have two basins... Thawing items and washing veggies.
Get a double sink - one side LARGE and one side small.
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You don't need to sacrifice large interrupted space for thawing items in water. Thaw items in bowl or in a small plasitc bin that you store under the sink. Place the bin in the sink, and you have a water thaw area that doesn't pose a permanent obstacle.
Now you can can wash cookie sheets, fridge shelves, oversized pots and pans, etc. And with one drain, you don't have to scoop crud from one side to the side with a garbage disposal (yuck). Every scrap of food waste in the sink gets ground up automatically.
So in fact there is no reason for a double basin sink if you have a dishwasher.
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That should read UNinterrupted
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Nate Nagel wrote:

You could have bought a drain stopper; large (5"), circular, flat piece of rubber. About fifty cents.

Yes.
I don't know about buckets, but I did once see this bit graffiti:
Differences between Univ of Michigan girls and toilet seats: 1. Toilet seats always go down for you. 2. Holes in toilet seats don't get stretched out. 3. You can get used to the looks of a toilet seat. 4. You can talk to a toilet seat. 5. You don't have to kiss a toilet seat to use it. 6. Toilet seats take a lot of shit without complaining.
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In the long run it'll probably be cheaper to replace the girlie. I doubt a dog will care if you have a strainer, stopper or sprayer. ;-)
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female really wants a new kitchen, its only a matter of time
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Oh, that's a given. Not going to happen for a few years at least though, because step one would be to remove the window from the back wall and install a shorter one, so the counter can continue around the back wall of the house (I've already been kicking around ideas in my head...)
nate
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Projects like that can be costly. Since the window is smaller, you have to fill in with something outside. Next thing you know, it is a 20 x 30 deck and new siding for the entire house.
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