DISH network tip.

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I like to put them on the spot myself. When we bought my wife's Lincoln, I went ahead and let them think I was broke and I needed the loan. After we had done all the negotiating and they were ready to close, I pulled out my check book and wrote them a check for the price he quoted us. They lost it. It turned out, they were planning to make almost $2000 on the financing. They did hand me back my check and said they couldn't do it. I was surprised, usually they gripe about it but stop me before I get to the door. (I have done this before) I ended up financing $7500 (the minimum they could write) and paid it off in 3 payments, the minimum I could do. (1/2, then half of that, then the balance) The interest was about $150 using the funny way they compute it
With Obama's $4500 for the ragged out F150 I traded, the $450 for the scrap value of the truck and the tax credit for the closing fees, it was a pretty good deal. ;-)
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On 9/25/2015 11:55 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You got a great deal it sounds like.
--
Maggie

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On 9/25/2015 10:19 AM, Muggles wrote:

Had a similar situation with my daughter. My graduation gift to her was the down payment,t he rest on here. She had a job. She went and looked at a car, had a price, etc. I went later with her to make the deal, but I asked, what is the real price going to be? Not only did the saleman not move, my daughter was willing to pay. She was nearly in tears "it my mney can't I buy what I want?" Then I remembered the dealer 10 miles down the road. Walked in, same exact car was there. Just give me a good price and I'll buy it was my answer. Saved $600. and daughter got a real life lesson. She laughed when the first salesman called her the next day.
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On 9/25/2015 12:16 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I bet she remembered that life lesson.
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Maggie

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My favorite is "what do I have to do to put you in this car today"
Just be sure you have an answer and stick to it.
Back in the olden days 75% of sticker was a good starting point and you wanted him to throw in the dealer prep items for free. Work from there.
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Muggles wrote:

Good salesmen are trained. And train is on going with the evolution of product. THey go to car manufacturer's training school. They are professional not like kids working at Best buy.
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On 9/25/2015 5:39 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

But the choice of training determines what that salesman will know -- unless left to his own devices to seek MORE information.
E.g., I am willing to bet they could tell you how much per $K it costs to finance any vehicle at whatever their current financing terms are!
OOH, if I were to inquire as to the criteria by which the vehicle decides how many *cylinders* to use at any given instant, I'd expect most salesfolks (and probably many technicians!) to stare at me dumbfounded. Assuming they even KNOW that the ECU has this characteristic!
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As we discussed before, my wife has a lot of sales experience. She says people only have two things that make them buy, love or fear. You either make them love your product or make them afraid not to buy it. If you watch the TV ads you see both concepts in action, usually trying to tap into both emotions.
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On 9/24/2015 6:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Interesting.
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Maggie

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On 9/24/2015 4:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

This is how *all* people "manipulate" others! Consider political ads, political speeches, trials (legal system), etc. Most people are *so* easily manipulated by emotion that any *reasoned* argument is a wasted effort -- they are far less capable of analytic thought and far more susceptible to "animal instinct".
[notice how little "substance" is present in political discourse? news reporting? etc.]
I contend that this is the reason behind most "buyer's remorse": the emotional manipulator wears off (after the decision is finalized!) and then the slower, calculating subconscious starts reexamining the transaction in the cool light of day! Often, with regret.
If you, instead, apply *reason* to your decisions (not just purchases), then there is a greater chance that your decision will stand the test of time *without* those nagging uncertainties/regrets.
We've owned our vehicle for a couple of months, now. And, become *happier* with our (reasoned) decision with each drive we take: "Gee, they really thought this feature out a lot better than those other vendors did!"
"Wow! Can you imagine how uncomfortable this ride would have been in that (other) vehicle?"
Of course, the true test will be ten years hence...
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I can agree with that . I worked in a very large plant making polyester. Worked as a trouble shooter for part of the time. Got a call one night the machine would not start. Went out and the fellow said it would not start and he was pressing the RED button (which is the stop button) and said 'see, it won't start'. Said to him' look you big dumb ass try the GREEN button'. I could tell lots of stories like that if I had the time.
About once a year the cable TV went out. First time I found out it blew a fuse somewhere down the line from my house. Called them about 6 or 8 times for the same problem over the years and still let them go through their scrip but as I had already tried things, just answered them. Then they send out the 'inside man' to check the house. He calls the 'out side man' to go and check where the fuse is. After the second time I tried to tell the phone person to send the 'outside' man but they never do, so quit trying to tell them anything.
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On 9/22/2015 3:09 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

The same problem also exists in reverse -- "technicians" thinking the customer/user is an idiot and NOT taking him/her for granted.
When we had DSL, I was encountering lots of "line noise" problems (cables are all below grade, here, so water infiltration often compromises a cable). Technician came out to test the line. Chatted with him for a bit while he was setting up, etc. So, he had some idea as to my technical abilities.
After running a battery of tests, he shook his head and said, "Looks good", and was getting ready to pack up and leave ("No fault found"). I asked him to humor me. As we were having a good discussion, he opted to do so. Some 4 or 5 minutes later, the noise floor shot up tremendously! He clipped his handset to the pair and could barely make out the *dial* tone!
"Yikes! Looks like you've got a problem, here!"
I've learned with any "professional" who shows up to do some repair that it is in my best interest to engage them in conversation so they understand the quality of my comments and don't rush to dismiss them (on the work order they've been given) as they might for one of my neighbors. Having to call them *back* isn't a win for *anyone*!
I detected a slight natural gas odor (rotten eggs) after a plumber had done some work on the gas line, here. He double checked it (soapy water test) and dismissed it as a figment of my imagination.
I borrowed a portable mass spectrometer from a friend who was the Safety Officer at a local hospital. With this as a "sniffer", went in search of the leak.
Called the plumber *back* (after having returned the instrument) and pointed him at the *exact* location that I had isolated. Again, the soapy water comes out. But, this time, he's far more patient and sits for a good 5 minutes watching for bubbles.
"Wow! That's such a *tiny* leak! How the hell could you smell that with your nose??"
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On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:27:16 -0700, Don Y

The last time this happened the guy on the phone TOLD ME TO DO IT before they would send me a new one. This time was a net chat

I certainly leaned something today. Just act dumb and say the MF is broke. If they want you to try something say that is too hard.
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On 9/22/2015 4:28 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

The folks on the phone aren't typically "at liberty" to *waive* the LEGAL TERMS of your contractual agreement.
Should the terms say: "The equipment is ours. Attempting to disassemble, modify or repair it voids the warranty -- except for the remote control (which you can do with as you please; we will replace them indefinitely so make sure you call and request a new one any time yours gets dirty or your kids smash it with a hammer!)"
If you are capable of disassembling/repairing a snap-together/solvent-welded plastic remote with conductive *rubber* buttons, shouldn't you *also* be capable of replacing the power plug when the strain relief fails and it develops an intermittent connection? *Shirley* you'll know how to strip wire insulation, twist the stranded conductors together before *correctly* orienting them under the screw heads, taping any exposed conductors, etc.! Look at all the money you'll save us -- not having to ship out a new unit for a frayed cord!
And, heck, you've probably ALSO got experience replacing disk drives in computers! So, if you're willing to use one of your *own* disk drives, we should be thrilled to let you disassemble the unit (DVR) and install it! Our stock price will soar now that we've cut out all these (warranty) repair costs!
Imagine them letting you do these things. Perhaps, over time, even ENCOURAGING people to do them -- to keep their warranty costs low. Then, one day, little Timmy gets electrocuted cuz his Dad didn't properly connect a wire. Or, their house burns down cuz a short in the unit (a result of a slipshod repair his Dad made) started a blaze. THEY want to sue the manufacturer for damages. The manufacturer ENCOURAGED these repairs (at the very least, didn't PROHIBIT them!!).
Always have to be careful with what you say to a "company representative".
Mid 80's, I was developing an electronic KWHr meter (the gizmo on the side of your house that tells the power company how much electricity you've used this month). My prototype had the ability to "talk" to a PC -- so I could collect data, control its operation, calibration, etc.
As it was just a prototype (quantity ONE), I cut some corners in the implementation of the interface. Specifically, I did NOT electrically isolate the interface from the power line (that the meter was monitoring!). This was fine as the PC "floats" wrt the AC line.
But, when I plugged in a *printer* to get some hard-copy output, there was an explosive *pop* as something gave up its magic blue smoke.
You can *bet* that when I called the PC manufacturer to complain about my brand new $8,000 PC "going bang", I didn't tell them the details of my unusual "system configuration" that CAUSED the problem! :>
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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 07:50:05 -0700, Don Y

Maybe you missed the part where I said the LAST time I called, the guy on the phone TOLD me to try to clean it and explained where to pry to pop it open. They are NOT welded together and it is easy to open one. I understand the guy on the phone was probably a US tech and the guys on the chat line are in the 3d world somewhere. I just did not know they operate under different rules.
It is still silly that if I just SAY I have a bad remote and go through their 4-5 step script, I get a new one, no questions asked but if I say I tried to fix in, "no remote for you". They do not want the old one back so I really could have just given my remote to a neighbor or even sold it on Ebay.

That was very common on the Replay TV units and I never heard of anyone getting in trouble getting support after they put a bigger drive in one. Maybe Sonic Blue was more enlightened. They got sued out of business tho.

You keep ignoring the fact that this is a direct replacement item with no return. They have no way of knowing what I did.

So you are saying "do as I say, not as I do" ;-)
I am not surprised that your machine blew up if you did not float the printer too. Better would have been to isolate the PC from the power line with the right kind of coupling device (balun or whatever) On old computers a DDA coupler was a good way to isolate the serial port. If it was good enough for Ma Bell it was good enough for me.
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On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 4:34:43 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

It's a cheap made in China remote that costs them a few bucks and isn't worth the time they are taking arguing about it and losing a customer in the process, it's not a DISH receiver or some other piece of more expensive eqpt.
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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:42:39 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

It was simply a room of of script monkeys, following the rules. I almost understand it until I step back and apply a little logic. I did think it was funny that when I said, "OK I have two OTHER bad remotes and I never touched them" that it just sailed through. If people are not allowed to think, you just have to lower yourself to their level. I am sure they are laughing about this in a bar in Bangladesh too, I don't think the people are stupid, only the rules they operate under.
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On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:44:12 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

Ah ... SLT cards (Solid Logic Technology). The chips were made in Fishkill New York and the cards may have been assembled in a number of plants. That was fairly low intensity integration. Those chips were analogous to a TTL chip. (one or 2 gates on a chip depending on complexity)
They kept increasing the density until we got to a CPU on a chip and the whole computer on a card. At that point, they didn't need me.
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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

By the mid 70s most of the SLT (S/360) stuff was long gone although there were a few boxes still floating around out there. The newer technologies used the same basic can but there was a lot more on the chip. By the mid 70s logic on the big machines was water cooled and a whole lot of circuitry on the wafer.
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On 9/23/2015 9:54 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Ah, the 2741 terminal. A blazingly fast 134.5 baud interface. <http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/2741.html
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