Discharging gray water to back alley

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On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:36:41 -0500, orangetrader wrote:

Perhaps I assumed that because you haven't given any details about what the problem was with the drain. Is it clogged? Broken?
As for the fix, it doesn't cost that much money to dig a trench. I'll come over and do it for only $1000 if you'd like.
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orangetrader wrote:

You might want to check out these technologies:
http://www.zoompower.com/bursting.htm http://www.perma-liner.com/lateral.html
I had the pipebursting one done. Replaced 10 ft of cast iron and 50 ft of badly rooted terracotta. To have done it the "old way" would have required losing some trees and shrubs, plus cost of relandscaping.
Both of those links above show a pit dug next to the house. In my case, it made more sense to cut the slab floor of the basement so as to pass the new pipe under the foundation. That was a 4 ft deep hole, as opposed to 12' deep in the front yard.
To research this yourself, search terms are
sewer lateral trenchless no-dig pipebursting relining cured-in-place liner CIPP
in various combinations.
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How many millions of gallons of water do you figure we have coming out of tailpipes and smoke stacks? That is one of the byproducts of burning fossil fuels
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Are there that many people in Pa that shit their pants? I find this comical that the trace amount of fecal coliform in your shorts has this woman's panties in a wad but Jimmy Buffett and every 15 year old girl in Nebraska tells me we need to "save" the manatee that shits 40 pounds a day into the same water I am supposed to be contaminating with my lawn filtered wash water. It is safe to say a raccoon drops more fecal coliforminone day than a year's worth of "skidmarks" for a big family.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:39:42 -0500, The Real Tom <Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com> wrote:

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I've been following this thread with interest because in the neighborhood that I live in, there are more than a couple houses that I know of that discharge laundry water and sump pump discharge into the street. The municipality won't stop it because they are the same people that won't make city-sewer available to this area of town. It's such an old neighborhood that some of the homes don't even have a septic "system", just a cesspool. The neighborhood was built as a seasonal escape from the city so a cesspool under an outhouse wasn't a problem. In fact indoor plumbing came after the oldest remaining homes had been built. After my house had been built circa 1927. City water was made available in the 70's after a few wells got contaminated by the septic fields. You see, the area is also clay marl. It never drained well and as the years went by it just got worse. You can no longer get a permit for a septic systm around here so unless you are willing to pay about 30k, not including the plumbing between your house and the drainline, to hook up to the nearest sewer main(which happens to be private) you are shit out of luck. How ironic. My septic has been fine for the 14 years I've been here but there are times of year when the water table gets so high that the septic field won't drain entirely and stays soggy. And my laundry water drains into a brick lined drywell. So a few families draining laundry water into the street and storm drains gets overlooked. We had an association about 10 years ago and tried to get something done about the problem but the lawyers ate up the funds faster than we could raise them. We got know by the local press as the "sewer people" and never made any headway. Christie Whitman eased the wetlands regulations quite a bit and the DEPE got soft. You can't even get them to enforce ther own rules. Oh, and BTW, the fine for cutting down a tree in a wetlands area is $250. and you don't even have to replace the tree. What a joke. This whole fucking state is a joke. <rant halted>
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Kathy wrote:

That sounds a lot like an area I almost moved into. Seasonal cottages are now year-round residences with insulation and central heat, bathrooms have been upgraded and added, and now the cesspools are failing. It makes the houses very hard to sell unless the bank doesn't require a septic cert, or the buyer is paying cash.
Some residents have added 55 gallon drums as drywells (mini cesspool) for their laundry greywater, but such additions are not permissable. Cesspools are no longer permissable in new systems, and the only allowable repair to a grandfathered cesspool which cannot keep up with the dwelling's output is replacement with a permissable system. The lots are sloped except for the part where the house and cesspool are, so there's no room for a conventional drainfield. The township is going to have to run a pipe, seems almost no way out of it, or condemn the area. Some of them might be able to get away with drip irrigation where the slope is 30% or less. There's a school nearby that has an evapotranspiration bed or something, maybe the residents and the school could form an association to handle their combined problem.
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:26:01 GMT "Edwin Pawlowski"

We only had a single tub, and I guess I didn't say it but the rinse water drained out through that tube, surrounded by the wash water in the same tub. When I was 10 this was very impressive.

Yeah.
Off topic from the off-topic, but in NYC for quite a few years around the turn of the century, 1900, it was illegal to take a bath. Because it was so much effort to heat the water on the stove, more than one person would bath in the same water, and it spread diseases. (They would hang the tub outside the kitchen window, between the buildings, when not using it.)
I guess if you had a hot water heater connected to a real tub, baths were not illegal, but people from the tenements were expected to go to the public baths, which I think were showers.

They still sell that pulley. I mention this because for some reason I have one, but I can't return it since i don't have the receipt and don't remember where I bought it. :(
My mother dried clothes outside until 1966, but we had a yard. And wooden clothespoles to hold up the clothesline. For 10 years in Brooklyn I had a washing machine, 2 consecutive ones that I found in the trash on the street, both easy to repair. But I never found a drier, so I dried my clothes on the shower bar. Cotton/polyester dries very quickly. Towels take a whole day, and come out stiff, but the stiffness goes away the first time they're used.
Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 27 Feb 2005 07:55:24 -0700 "<RJ>"

When they built the reservoirs around Baltimore, maybe in the 50's through 70's, the engineer wanted a pipe from the Susquehanna river 30 or 40 miles away. They built it in the 70's, I think it was, but didn't use it until about 1998 and the following year, when it really came in handy. The reservoirs were close to empty and I think we would not have had enough water without that pipe.
The guy who wanted it was still alive to see it used. That's good because I'm sure he had gotten a lot of flak about wasting city money.
In Israel, they take the sewage from Tel Aviv and around there, from toilets, etc. and pipe it down to Beersheva and futher south to water the crops with. Even though they use computerized drip irrigation, they are still short of water.

Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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Who the fuck died and made you protector of the world, you snivelling little bitch?
Your best bet is to continue growing your kiddie porn collection, and staying out of the advice giving business, dickhEaD.
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Hmmmmmm... I'm not saying your wrong... but I would like to see the regulation that refers to gray water as human waste in PA. It is my understanding that it is (or was about 10 years ago) perfectly acceptable in PA (unless superceded by local codes) to discharge gray water at least (IIRC) 75 feet from any well and (IIRC) 25 feet from any septic tank and at least (IIRC)100 feet from property lines when on a property exceeding 10 acres. I may not remember the distances any more, but I sure do remember having to draw up a map showing exactly how far it was to all of these.
I might be wrong... but I don't think so as this was standard practice and policy out here in the country. And if that were re-written... what would they do when probably 3/4 of the farms in PA (and there are a lot) use gray water discharge? I just read a whole bunch of stuff about the CleanWays deal where they are going to look at us for where fertilizer and oils and such are stored in relation to streams and run-off (and that's a *good* thing) but I've never heard that they call gray water human waste in any regulation here. In fact... there is so much clay here that makes perking difficult that they almost discouraged putting the whole deal in the septic years ago, although they now just won't issue any permits if perks aren't good.
This sounds like a local suburban/urban code as opposed to a state regulation to me, but I certainly would be interested in seeing the actual codes and dates enacted... and know how the hell they would go about forcing 3/4 of rural PA to change.
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I wish I was wrong, I just can't find the email. When I moved here(my house in pa) in 2002 we had a slight drought conditions. That is when I remember firing off the email. I can't find the email, but I remember it did reference specific articles, and the lady told me about some grey water having higher bacteria concentrations than some black water sources.
I'll look, might be in another account.
later,
tom

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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:27:17 -0500, The Real Tom <Tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com> wrote:

I still can't find the orginal email, but found some pa code, about laundry discharge:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter73/s73.11.html (look for "laundry wastes")
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter243/chap243toc.html (look for "laundry water")
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/subject/eqb/1999/wastewatermgt/91crproprm.pdf (considers graywater laundering as sanitary sewage)
http://www.webdesignpros.net/consult/septic/septicsystem.htm (not code but look at the comment about "graywater is just as significant as a pollutant source as blackwater") Might have been supplied with the same professional comment about graywater I was.
hth,
tom

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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:55:25 -0500, "orangetrader"

Maybe http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter243/chap243toc.html
look for wash water
hth,
tom @ www.chopurl.com

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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:55:25 -0500, "orangetrader"

It would depend completely upon where you live, but here in Arizona it is legal to install a gray water system. You can read the highlights of the regulation here. Click on the Using Gray Water at Home link. http://az.gov/webapp/portal/SearchServlet?restrict=&q=gray+water&x=0&y=0
Some of the primary considerations are: (1) You must contain the water within your own property; (2) It cannot pool where humans can walk in it; (3) It must have a diverter valve where the water can be diverted back into the septic/sewer system if there is a problem; (4) It can only be used for irrigation; (5) Can only be used for bathroom sinks/shower/tub and laundry. Cannot be used for kitchen sink or dish washer because of the presence of food particles. Cannot be used for laundry if diapers or similar is washed in it.
In your case, if you were in Arizona, you would be in trouble because of the water leaving your property and also pooling.
Dick
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Dick wrote:

AZ is water hungry place. They would treat water with more respect! Tony
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In alt.home.repair on Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:10:17 -0700 Dick <LeadWinger> posted:

OFF TOPIC to the original question, but in 1958, the Whirlpool washer my mother bought had a sudsmiser option. The washing machine discharged the wash water to a laundry tub and discharged the rinse water to a tube that went straight to the drain in the same laundry tub. Then for the second load of laundry, it would suck up the still hot and soapy water for the wash cycle, and I guess this time it would discharge it through the tube.
Of course this wouldn't work with me and my laundry. My wash water is so dirty when it discharges sometimes, I start over at the beginning with clean wash water and more soap.
I haven't seen the Sudsmiser option on any machine other than the one my mother had.

Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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Wow-- That is a blast from the past. My mother also bought a new Whirlpool washer right around 1958. I remember now hearing the term "Susmiser". I don't think she ever used it though. What I do remember is that the machine lit up like a juke box-- it was beautiful when it was on in the dark (it was in the garage) Also, it had an electrically operated latch on the lid, which quit working after a few years-- my mother would open it by giving it a whack with her fist right in the center of the lid. The timer had a chain that moved the indicator across a horizontal panel that indicated the cycles. The first time the chain jumped off, in about 1963, I watched the repairman fix it (I was 12) and then I fixed it myself the next 3 or 4 tines it jumped off. She finally bought a new machine in about 1966-- a Sears that was a much more basic machine. I think my Dad picked out the fancy W/P machine.
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:39:49 -0600 snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (lp13-30) posted:

Sounds like the same model. My mother picked it out. Washer and dryer, both pink. Few or no lights though. Had it for 9 years in Indianapolis and another 10 in Allentown. Sold them for 50 dollars each when she moved to a place with not enough space. They were good as new. (Except when they moved to Pa. from Ind., they had to unload the moving van in Ohio. A trucker's strike had just started in Pa. and the truckers were shooting at non-union drivers. After the strike they reloaded my mother's stuff, and bashed in one rear to corner of the dryer.)
I later had an old whirlpool, but didn't use it often enough, and the main bearing holding the basket rusted shut. For one reason or another I probably went a month or two once without using it. If I had used it more often, would have lasted 10 more years.
Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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orangetrader wrote:

Do it right. You already have at least one neighbor mad at you and you may end up with the lot of them hating you. I would be a poor bureaucrac indeed who could not come up with some law to throw at you. I suspect it is covered anyway.
--
Joseph Meehan

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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:40:22 -0500, orangetrader wrote:

And how long have you been doing it.....? Two weeks, or is it longer than that?
I agree with the other guy... I'd report your dumb ass too.
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