Any experienced auto mechanics out there? I get my oil changed in my car at one of the "15 minute" places. The last two times a guy comes to me with a piece of paper with a drop of my power steering fluid and tells me the fluid is dirty and should be replaced . I have also seen the same thing done to others.
My question is " is the fact that the fluid is not clear and the same color as new fluid reason to change it?
rec.auto.tech
sounds like a scam to me.
No. Follow the instructions in your owner's manual. Most often, your car's fluids (other than oil) should _never_ be replaced - only topped when needed. In fact, changing fluids like this (especially transmission) can sometimes _cause_ harm because the viscosity of the new fluid may be susbtantially different than the fluid that's been in your car for xx,000 miles. Usually you only change when necessitated by a rebuild or repair.
Also, as a general rule you would be much better off changing your oil yourself even if only once a year and putting synthetic oil in your car, than letting one of those 15 minute places switch out your car's blood every three months.
it depends. yes it can be replaced, as long as you replace it with similar fluid (see the cap to see what kind to put in it), without harm. just because it's dirty doesn't mean it needs to be replaced. i try to replace the ps fluid in my vette every year or so, but i race it so the ps fluid gets extreme use.
you can suck most of it out with a turkey baster. put it in something that won't degrade (plastic) and take it to where they recycle oil.
What does your owner's manual say? Fluid will break down over time, but it is not something that has to be done every oil change. They may be using what is close to "scare tactics" to make a few extra bucks. I'd go with what the manual says and no sooner. Ed
Nonsense. I've changed and flushed my 97 T-bird transmission twice both times by necessity, (shudders).
Frank
I've been employed as a mechanic for 20 yrs. I've never had to "change" power steering fluid except for a failed component where the whole system drained. As others have said, follow your manual. The auto engineers must have "some" insight as they have built and designed these vehicles for years. How many vehicles has the jiffy lube guy designed and built? Has he read your owners manual and pointed out the section where it says to change the power steering fluid every 3000 miles? Your fluid is a different color because it is doing it's job!
Whether yours actually needs to be changed I do not know, but this is an old, well-known scam at many of these places. Beware. Get a second opinion from a qualified mechanic who can actually see the fluid and the car.
This is why I feel it's a good idea to cultivate a good, trained local independent mechanic by letting him do all or most of the work on your car.
(I'm no mechanic myself, but I am the sole financial support of a 1987 Mercedes 420 SEL and a 1989 Chrysler New Yorker).
Where did you come up with this BS?!! Clean fresh oil will never hurt anything! It may not be nessasary to change often, but it will never hurt anything, to change fluids often, other than your check book! As for the OP, if the oil is dirty, change it! Greg
Hi, First of all, how old is the vehicle? No fluid lasts forever. Dirty means contamination, if it is REALLY dirty and old, replacing it with fresh fluid is good thing. Same with tranny, radiator coolant, differential fluid, you name it. It's your car you decide. Tony
Try the question at some groups like:
alt.autos.gm
Ah, yes! That's how they sell things. At a recent lube job, the guy told me my 25,000 mile car had never had the (self adjusting) brakes adjusted. I asked him how much to see how gullible he thought me -- $45. Today, lubing my 12,000 mile Mazda at another place, they showed me the air filter with some barely discernable gray at the edges asking me if I wished to replace it. A couple of years ago, I was shown my PCV, dirty with cigarette ashes, suggesting it be replaced -- not hard to figure how it got dirty.
I've seen Jiffy Lube bring out a white paper towel with a smear of tan transmission fluid that supposidly, and probably did, come from my car, together with another of new red fluid. Then they tell you it needs to be changed and they recommend changing it every 30,000 miles.
I agree with the posters who think this is done to generate revenue. At the time I had this done to me, I had the GM shop manual for the car. It said it was normal for transmission fluid to turn brown with use, that it was not an indication that anything was wrong with it, and that under average conditions, the fluid and filter should be changed at 100K miles.
I have to disagree with those that say there is no harm in changing it sooner. These lube places drop the pan in the process to put in a new filter. Anytime you open up a closed system like that, you run the risk of introducing contamination, ie pieces of gasket material, dirt, etc, especially when it's done by employees of lube places, as opposed to real mechanics. I've seen them use pliers to loosen nuts and once they topped off my cooling system, which had the new 100K mile anti-freeze, with regular. It wound up plugging the system in a new car and later cost a couple hundred bucks to flush and fix at the dealer.
People also need to realise that the environment in a transmission is totally different than in an engine. Oil is principally contaminated by the byproducts of combustion in the engine. It's also exposed to higher temperatures. That's why it needs to be changed frequently. The conditions in a hydraulic system are very different. People have referred in this thread to the tranny fluid being "dirty." As per GM, just because the color of a fluid has changed, doesn't mean there is dirt in it.
If you want to change it with some extra margin, like at 75K or so, I think that's fine. Changing it and the filter more frequently is not only wasting money, but IMO, actually making failure more likely, do to introducing contamination in the process.
alot depends on driving habbits....an automatic transmission creates alot of heat(that is why they all have a cooler) and the fluid is subjected to all the heat...that is what turns the fluid "brown"...it becomes contaminated with "dust" from the clutch packs wearing, and burned from overheating....automatic transmission fluid is loaded with detergents because buildup of clutch material would be fatal to the small passages and sealing surfaces in the valve body....the filter catches the larger stuff, but the small stuff is left suspended in the fluid, therefore the color of the fluid changes...so yes, the fluid changing colors is "normal", that means it is doing its job...but its also normal for people to not adhere to factory maintenance schedules(which are a stretch/comprimise, because no one wants a "high maintenance" vehicle)....wanna talk fluid abuse? when was the last time you changed your brake fluid?
------------------- Chris Perdue "I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the air-cooled legend forward" Jim Mais Feb. 2004
It might be worthwhile to change out your power steering fluid every
100,000 miles or so. Emphasis on "might". The fluids that you should really be more concerned about changing on a regular basis are the motor oil, brake fluid, and antifreeze (and in that order; I do brake fluid more often than antifreeze).
Hi, Maybe he never saw a burnt out tranny fluid or did heavy towing. Tony
I am sure if you change all your car's oils every 10,000 miles or so you will have no problem. If the manufacturer recommends changing on whatever schedule, then do it.
However, if the oil (transmission or whatever) has been there for 100,000 miles, and you suddenly flush it out because you feel like it, it is completely intuitive that you are disrupting a system that is working fine. You may disturb large metal particles from where they've been lodged in the system, and there is likely wear on the gears that may actually depend on the fluid's viscosity at that point to continue to work well.
As an analogy, think about engine operation: over time, the rings wear on an older engine. When it was new, you probably put 10W30 into it. Over time, as it starts burning oil, you put heavier weight oil in because of larger gaps between moving parts caused by ring wear. At 180,000 miles, with no ring job, you're probably putting 20W50 in there. If you suddenly switched back to 10W30, you'd be burning a quart every week.
Well, the other systems are sealed and there's no combustion to burn oil - so you don't need to add any new fluid. But swapping out 100,000 mile old fluid that has likely got a much heaver viscosisty due to wear & debris over time from the system will likely have much the same effect.
All I am saying is, don't just change your fluid because the jiffy lube guy says it looks darker than new fluid and nothing is wrong.
Had the opposite happen once. I had a '78 Monte Carlo and the trans was not shifting properly at times. I took it to a major chain for the free estimate. They drained the fluid, dropped the pan and then gave me a $200+ estimate for repair. It would be $250 if I came back later. I told them no thanks and they put the fluid back in with dire warnings of potential problems.
It never missed a shift after that! I have no idea what the real problem was or how just draining the fluid would fix anything, but I got rid of the car 20,000 miles later and still working OK.
this analogy has nothing to do with preventative maintenance...your analogy is about putting a bandaid on a problem...
then you say :
key words "nothing is wrong"....this statement is exactly why your analogy above is invalid....but i do agree with this statement....no sense doing maintenance just because someone at a shop says to...but if you can't remember the last time it was done, maybe it does need it...
------------------- Chris Perdue "I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the air-cooled legend forward" Jim Mais Feb. 2004
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