Dimmable CFL

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I agree with most of the rest of your post. But I'd like to see on what basis you think this is unconstitutional. There are vast numbers of laws on the federal books that ban all kinds of things. The ban not too long ago on freon is probably the closest example. Back in the 30's they even banned private possession of gold, which is extreme, and no one successfully challenged that on any constitutional grounds.

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On Mon 28 Apr 2008 06:44:08a, told us...

Yes, I believe that, and almost all the incandescent bulbs I have in my home are 130v-rated. Their logevity is astounding.
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Wayne Boatwright
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:

Hi, Definitely those long life commercial grade ones lasts longer. Also there is another one called rough duty ones. They are good for ceiling light or trouble light fixtures. Pretty soon incadescent bulbs will be out of production like diminishing R22 refrigerant.
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The commercial grade, 130V and rough duty ones also produce less light. A 100 watt one of those is only slightly brighter than a standard 75 watt one.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Mon 28 Apr 2008 11:04:17a, Don Klipstein told us...

True, but I like the color of the light better.
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Wayne Boatwright
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:00:45 GMT, Wayne Boatwright

They use more electricity, however.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Hmmm, I don't think so. 130V rated lamp is on 120V circuit. Simple Ohm's law.
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A 130V incandescent being operated at 120 volts consumes about 89%, maybe 88% of rated power. (Not 85% - the filament's resistance varies directly with temperature.)
And when a 130V incandescent is operated at 120 volts, it produces about 75-76% of its full light output. Efficiency decreases a lot when an incandescent is underpowered.
A 130V 100W incandescent only outshines a 75W 120V one due to incandescents having "economies of scale" that reduce the efficiency of lower wattage and lower current ones. A 75W 120V incandescent produces about 69% of the light of a 100W one.
One more note: If you have incandescents on a dimmer and usually operate them dimmed, consider using a lower wattage to use less dimming. Although a 75W incandescent produces 69% of the light of a 100 watt one, a 100 watt one dimmed to consume 75 watts has about 53% of its full output.
That leads to another consideration: Reduce the number of bulbs if you can - a smaller number of higher wattage bulbs will be slightly more efficient than a larger number of lower wattage ones. Just don't take this to an extreme that affects evenness of illumination.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Apr 28, 11:49pm, snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

To the point, a new "energy efficient" incandesant is BS , incandesants must be taxed to force savings upon us in the form of energy.
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In article
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on the internet.
My claim is based on wishful thinking, not on actual case law.

That's a good point, and darned frustrating: Today, there is evidence that CFCs are not the ozone-depleting threat once charged. R-12 was good stuff.

Did the Supreme Court ever hear it?
Too much of our Constitution is simply - and quietly - side stepped.
--
<sigh>
JR

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Redelfs wrote in part:

They are available at Lowes. You can also get Philips "/99" series incandescents from bulbs.com - those are rated to last 2500 hours.

Target now has dimmable CFLs.

Home Depot is already selling incandescents with energy efficiency improved enough to not be affected by the ban that starts in 2012-2014. They are rated to last 3,000 hours and are dimmable. They are Philips Halogena "Energy Saver".
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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...
Well, things have indeed gotten much better. For instance this surface coal-mining on hilltops, all the "tailings" being shoved down into the valleys.
Thank god for Bush and Cheney's regulations that those sites have to be remediated back to original beauty and cleanliness "+". And note the by now hundred of examples of the good-citizen coal companies transporting all those tailings from way down in the valleys back up to where they came from, then sealed in by the most modern technology so no leaks guaranteed for the next 20 million years, and then schools and hospitals and auditoriums built above it all, beautiful landscaping, lucious green grass, playgrounds and swimming pools for the valley town's kids, really nice!

I thought it was common knowledge that *median*-income, in "real" terms, peaked in the early 70's, and it's been downhill ever since.

Has Exxon ever paid even 50-cents for cleanup for the Exxon-Valdez oil spill?
(Interesting investigative-reporter book: "the best democracy money can buy", by greg palast. 10 or 15 chapters, each on a separate (paid for) investigation do by him (palast: American, reports for or at least has shows on BBC Newsnight. (Of course, you'll never see them *here*!). Anyway, captain was drunk, in bed, (I think that's what he found), but far, far worse was that the perfectly-functioning radar was turned OFF that night -- hell, maybe always! Betcha you didn't see *that* in the newspapers or on the TV!))

What I hear is that there simply isn't that much more around here (USA) -- that the biggest such find is almost guaranteed to be smaller than Alaska (which apparantely just isn't all that big.)
Then there's oil from "oil shale", I understand, like up in Canada, and there's supposed to be *lots* of it, the only problem being that's it's (apparantely) BY FAR the "dirtiest" type, with (maybe) equiv effect on the atmosphere, etc.

Well, I myself live maybe 10 miles north of "the Bronx", and just 20 or 30 miles northwest of me, right there on the Hudson river, there's two (or is it three?) of them.
They expire in just a while (5 years?), are already leaking Tritium into the drinking water, have already had some close calls to Armaagheddon (sp?), and guess what -- they're trying to get a 30 year extension! And with the kind of money they have for "lobbying" (ie bribes), they'll probably get it.
Insane.
If you're gonna build the things, at least do it out in Nevada or the Dakotas where if something blows you don't throw the entire nation info a bottomless depression from having to abandon the entire East Coast from D.C. to Boston.

That too. Had Osama been a bit smarter, he'd of have those planes dive into the spent-fuel ponds right there next to those nuclear plants.

And how long ago was Chernoble (sp?)? And the effect of that on having to abandon a huge amount of land?
And what about the wind-effect, carrying the radiation clear across western Europe? And its food-supply?

Nah, what we really need to do is to "off" those Chinese and Indians who're (now or very soon will be) taking all our oil!
Cheers!
David
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CAUTION - most of those mogul screw base ballastless CFLs get overpowered in HID fixtures - should they work at all.
CFLs of wattage over 50 watts (and for that matter also most under 50 watts) tend to either have their own internal ballasts or require ballasts specific to themselves as opposed to ballasts for mercury or other HID lamps. Do not put a mogul base CFL into a 175 watt mercury fixture unless it is rated for use in a 175 watt mercury fixture and also has the ANSI "ballast compatibility" code of H39. Other HID "retrofit lamps" have other ANSI "ballast compatibility" codes on either the bulb or the package or in any inserted printed material. Use those in HID fixtures only if the fixture and/or the ballast has an ANSI "ballast compatibility" code same as one for the lamp (lightbulb). Otherwise, there is probability or possibility of malfunction, including significant chance that malfunction will occur "down the road" should the lamp work "apparently OK" initially. Such malfunctions may include hazardous ones.
Keep in mind that there is such a thing as ballastless mogul screw base CFLs that lack any ANSI "ballast compatibility" codes. Those require ballasts/fixtures recommended by the lamp manufacturer, which may be proprietary ones. The best example that I can think of is Lights of America "Fluorex" lamps, widely available at Home Depot.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

They really don't have filaments as regular fluorescent lamps. Because they use an electronic ballast, the voltage can be high enough to not need the traditional heated filament, starter, etc.
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They actually have filament-style electrodes. They somewhat get away with lack of preheating those filaments during starting, but the "hot cathode" "filament style" electrodes are still what is there!
Availability to force starting without preheating the filament electrodes is "Instant Start". This is opposed to "Rapid Start", "Program Start", and a couple other schemes.
True instant start is something that I think goes at best at own risk when dimming is used!
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Apr 27, 2:51pm, snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

There is no filament in a CFL.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

All fluorescents except cold cathode types have a filament at each end to use as an electrode. They have a coating that gets sputtered (effectively evaporated), and much more rapidly if they are not at the proper temperature. When that coating is gone, the fluorescent lamp does not work too well (often not at all) anymore.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

Kind of a matter of semantics. CFLs usually don't have a filament as in the long tubes. They do have an electrode at each end. The filaments in the standard tubes are used as heaters to help in starting. CFLs use a higher voltage that don't require the pre-heater.
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In instant-start hot cathode fluorescents including instant start CFLs, the electrodes are still in the form of filaments.
Also, many hot cathode CFLs are not true instant start but "program start" or "trigger start" ("rapid start" with filament heating current reduced once the lamp gets started). The filaments actually get preheated in those.
Cold cathode CFLs don't have filaments, but few CFLs are cold cathode. I have never seen Home Depot carrying more than one cold cathode model - the 3 watt N:Vision one. And I was there yesterday.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Take it back, im sure it has a warranty, but I dought cfls dim well, they probably go red in color dimmed
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