Digital Thermostat Click

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to
yourself??
You have not a clue to what I install or do in a days work.
But, yes I have customers that understand more than just a simple stat......unlike you.
They want quality, comfort, and reliability. (something you don't understand)
-- kjpro _-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>
( kjpro @ starband . net ) remove spaces to e-mail
Want it done yesterday? Or done right today, to save money tomorrow!!
_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>
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kjpro wrote:

And you have no idea what I do and do not understand. You're just too arrogant to figure this out.

And probably reasonable value for their money.

Wrong again.
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If you understood, you wouldn't be trying to tell us pro's what's better in OUR line of work!
-- kjpro _-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>
( kjpro @ starband . net ) remove spaces to e-mail
Want it done yesterday? Or done right today, to save money tomorrow!!
_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>
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kjpro wrote:

More of your arrogance. Seems you think you are good at lecturing. It's a pity you are so full of yourself.
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work!
Nope, I don't go around and argue about something I know nothing about.
Unlike You.
-- kjpro _-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>
( kjpro @ starband . net ) remove spaces to e-mail
Want it done yesterday? Or done right today, to save money tomorrow!!
_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>
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says...

complete,
CBHvac is a licensed HVAC guy. He hates anything that allows a homeowner to do something on their own, since if you can go out and buy your own thermostat and install it yourself he won't be able to charge you $300 for the stat + $120 to install it. In addition he won't be able to get a foot in your door to sell you new equipment you probably don't need.
I have a Hunter stat myself for over 2 years now, haven't even had to replace the batteries yet. My folks have had a Lux for at least 3 years now. Never a problem. I have however seen a Honeywell fail (that's why I have a Hunter stat now).
If CBHVAC had his way, you wouldn't even be able to buy air filters at the local hardware store: You'd be hiring and paying him $300 every three months to do the job.
Want proof? Look how most of the technical trades have "Apprenticeship" systems in place: It doesn't take 5-7 years to learn a trade like Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC, etc ... unless you're mentally retarded. The apprenticeship system is really just a regulator of sorts to keep supply and demand in check within the workforce under the guise that it somehow improves safety. Sadly, people who would otherwise be brilliant working certain trades are turned off by having to work under sub-standard wages for such a lengthy time.
Here in Ontario one has to go through 5 years of an Electrical Apprenticeship to get their license. By contrast to get their gas and oil licenses, they need only take a 4 week course (full time) and pass a test (50% is considered a pass, as I understand it). The instructors of these courses know what's going to be on the exam, and train the students only on that content since failures can get them fired. Why is gas and oil like this in Ontario, and Electrical is not? Because the labour rates in HVAC here were going through the roof. Electrical rates are on the rise too -- BUT they have a strong union here.
Sorry if these seems like a rant, but the constant self-serving whining by some of these so-called pros about how homeowners should just sit on their hands and do nothing really gets to me some times.
jim
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if you study for 4 years you'll become an electrical engineer the material related to electrical work is covered in 2 or 3 courses (circuits,power and electromagnetics)
it's ridiculous that you have to be an apprentice for 5 years to learn the electrical code.
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Sigh...another idiot opens his mouth and inserts his foot..
says...

your
Let me explain something....I am licenced, because its the law here. Do I agree with it? Nope. Do you think I enjoy forking over what it takes to keep that damn licence and insurance each and every year? The answer, is no.
Do I feel that I am more qualified to give an answer in regards to matters like this than you or some electrical engineer? Damn right.

Sigh...shows how little you know....
We sell filters, lets take 20X20X1...a very common size..for fifty freaking cents....you want a CASE? Thats 25 BTW... Pleated paper in the same size? about a buck. Labor to install....zero. You got it bubba...someone wants a filter changed out each month...(yea...its ever 30 days done correctly in this enviroment) we just work it into the work schedule and swing over and put it in... I cant tell you how many older folks we install them for at the first of each month....for free...I think I can afford a few bucks back to the people that have spent money with us, and trust us..

"Apprenticeship"
Funny thing is, it does not take that long to get a degree in HVAC...sorry... Anyone can do it...its finding someone to do it right, and take a bit of pride in it.
Sorry you havent found that kind of person yet.

and
for
Umm...no. In NYC for example, the only licence you must have is the EPA. There is no licence needed to work in the field. There are tons of hacks up there that will kindly take your money. Stormin Mormon is one.

on
I am anti union too...but if you had known anything about me, you would know that.

whining
Good. It should. Really. You know what rips me? When some idiot thinks he knows what I do based on a couple of posts. Let me ask you something....did you work today? Seriously. Did you? I did. Ran 4 calls, and made zero. Why? Because it was all heat pump calls, except one, an oil unit that needed about 60 seconds of adjustment. The other 3 took a combined total of about 2 minutes to fix, and 20 each to set back up. It wasnt in my interest to charge them for that..... Thats how I work. I also installed 3 furnaces last month for folks that could not afford them, and when it came time to pay, I told them to have a great Christmas and went on...sorry...but when I tell someone to get a professional to look at it, it is for a reason.
Do I charge? Sure I do. I have to. Do I charge as much as the next guy? Not even. I have pics on my site right now, that proves why I say, HIRE A PRO...down on the bottom of the pics page, there is an installation that we were asked to look at....I am going to rip it all out, and replace it with new everything, CORRECTLY, for about half of what he was charged for an illegal and unsafe installation. Will I make money? Sure I will....but before you condem me for charging, when was the last time you worked for a couple of months, spent your own money on others, and did if for free? When you can say you gave your neighbor a furnace comepletely installed with permits and inpections and code updates for no reason other than they needed it and cant afford it, then you can blast me...till then, kiss my ass.

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says...

your
If, you knew CB, he's not like that.............are you??

$300 every 3 months??
Damn man what kind of filter do you have? Most people need to replace their filter monthly. (unless they have a special media filter) But, even then it depends on the conditions.

"Apprenticeship"
and
for
on
whining
Sorry that you are so damn CLUELESS!!
-- kjpro _-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>_-~-_>
( kjpro @ starband . net ) remove spaces to e-mail
Want it done yesterday? Or done right today, to save money tomorrow!!
_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>_>
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On 21-Dec-2003, "CBhvac"

I've installed a bunch of Lux 1500 (IIRC) units over the years and I've never seen one fail. I replaced the Honeywell in my home with a Lux. It's been works fine for almost five years now. YMMV.
The user interface of the Honeywell sucks big time. The Lux is much simpler and better.

That clearly is the fault of the manufacturer - no?
Mike
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a relay is a mechanical device. the fact that the thermostat is digital is irrelevant.
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This is Turtle.
The Clicking noise on digital thermostats are normal in this way. the upper end of the quality scale of thermostats really rarely make any Clicking noise. now the lower end of the digital thermostat quality scale will click on most all the models. Now all brands make low end equipment and high end equipment except Hunter, Lux, and Jade, which does not make high end equipment.
Now to Hunter, jade, and Lux being of any quality or not. They are just one of the boys down at the low end of the quality scale and it seems to me to have more trouble out of low end equipment at the lower end of the equipment scale. Now Honeywell, White Rogers, and Robert Shaw do make equipment in this low end equipment scale and i do see trouble out of them too, but not as much as Hunter, jade, and Lux with problems. This is my take on the thermostat game.
Now to the ideal of hvac people putting down Hunter, Jade, and Lux for they can be bought at any hardware stores all over and the hvac people wanting to sell you Honeywell, White Rogers, and Robert Shaw because you can't buy them and there is a better mark up on them. that is a bunch of bull for any major hardware stores [ Lowes, home depot, Southerlands, HobbyLobby, Ace, and Office Max ] all sell the honeywell, Robert Shaw, or White Rogers. What I'm tring to tell you is if your going to buy your own thermostat to put on yourself. Get the Honeywell, Robert Shaw, or White Rogers in the place of the Hunter, Jade, and Lux for just getting less trouble and i did not say no trouble. In my hvac business I see bad thermostats or malifuctioning thermostats as the years go by and 80% of these will be hunter, jade, or Lux and 20% will be Honeywell, Robert shaw, or White Rogers. now one note here and that is i see the least trouble out of Honeywell than any other brand. Now your going to have to pay about $5.00 to $10.00 more for a Honeywell but i think it is worth it.
TURTLE
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Snip
Watch out Turtle...you will get called a pro defending his turf, even though you and I both have talked about it being ok for a person to do all the work he wants, since we are not threatened by the DIY...besides, without them, we would lose so much work in the way of fixing screwups..
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TURTLE wrote:

I read what you said and what CBhvac said about clicking being normal. That may be true but if there was much of a click I would hear it as mine is in the hall with a straight shot of about 12 feet to my ear. So after saying that my Honeywell doesn't click, I decided to check further. I put my ear about 1 inch from the thermostat and raised the desired temperature 4 degrees. The furnace came on. No click, no noise of any kind at the thermostat. My honeywell does not click! The diagram in the thermostat manual for hooking up the wires indicates that the wires from the thermostat go to a relay(s) that are not part of the thermostat.
Maybe I'm just lucky getting the Honeywell thermostat that I have. Personally, I would take back any electronic thermostat that made any noise for any reason other than programmed beeps.
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look, this is simple there are many different kinds of heating systems and they use different voltages. My thermostat doesn't click either but it only works with 12 volts. there are thermostats that work with 120V and a mechanical relay can drive more current than a transistor
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This is Turtle.
JJ , we are talking about clicking and not voltages. We are talking about residentiual hvac system and the voltage are limited to 24 volts or less to control with. If it comes under commercial you can get the 120 volt thermostats / Line voltage thermostats. Most line voltage thermostats will click for they have heavy terminals to call for the 120 volts on the controls. The 24 volt thermostat don't need to click for there is maybe at most 1 amp of power to turn on.
Clicking on residentiual equipment has nothing to do with the voltage to choose operate at but more of the quality of the thermostat you have.
You have me on the 12 volt control of your system. i would like to know what type uses this 12 volts to control with. I know 250 mill-volts to 750 mill-volts , 24 volts, 120 volt, 220 volts, and 480 volt but 12 volts just gets by me here.
TURTLE
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read the post I replied to. The guy asked why thermostats might use relays and not solid state switches. High voltage/current thermostats might be one place where you can't stick a powerful enough solid state switch.

what
It's probably my mistake, it must be 24V it's an oil-burning boiler, pretty standard.
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one
This is Turtle.
No city or Area code of any Kind let's you use line voltage on residentiual equipment. Low end RThermostat equipment used Phycial relays and High end Thermostat stuff uses Solid State.
TURTLE
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relays
residentiual
what about thermostats for baseboard electric heaters? Those are 240V like this one http://www.aubetech.com/english/apec2.html#TH110 240V, relay, digital.
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