Diesel generator, 2 questions

[Ignoramus13667]

I finally have a working small diesel generator that is working, although I still have to fit a starter to it. It is a military surplus, like new Coleman 4000W small diesel generator with an Acme Motori diesel engine. 110/220 volts.

Four questions.

1. What is the life expectancy of such a small diesel, in terms of hours. This one has an oil pump in it, it is not "splash lubricated".

1. I heard some stories about how difficult it is to start diesels in winter. Accidentally, that would be the time when I need a generator the most, to power the furnace in the house.

I will have a starter to spin it up very fast, but will I need to warm up the engine prior to starting? What is the ambient air temperature beyond which starting a diesel, even with a starter, becomes difficult?

How would I warm up the engine, practically? Can I do it with a propane torch or a little "candle" that is used to keep food warm at social gatherings (forgot the name of that thing)?

1. The generator will be on a concrete pad (most likely made of concrete patio blocks). I want to build an enclosure for the generator. At times when it is not needed, the enclosure will be "closed". At the time when the generator runs, I will open a "window" near the exhaust, some other "window" so that adequate air can be fed into the enclosure. The roof of the enclosure would lift a bit so that even more air circulation is permitted.

The enclosure would be lined with "basement soundproofing panels".

Would this be a workable plan. Does the enclosure need to be made of steel (which would be a pain and bad from soundproofing standpoint), or can it be safely made of plywood (again, provided adequate ventilation and a few inches clearance, from the standpoint of fire safety.

The diesel engine is quite loud and my neighbors would not appreciate its unsilenced sound at night. Plus, from the standpoint of protecting ourselves from thieves, it would be better if the noise is not as conspicuous.

Thanks

i

[m Ransley]

How do you know it is " good"

[Robert Morein]

My experience would be that in a power outage the noise is going to be the last thing the neighbors complain about

[Ignoramus13667]

Well, it's quite bad and needs to be rectified... Even though you have a good point.

i

[Dean Hoffman]

One thing to do would use #1 diesel or add fuel additive to #2 diesel. #2 diesel should run an engine fine down to about 5º F. One way to start a diesel in cold weather is to use starting fluid. You should be able to find some at a farm supply or auto parts store. Another way would be to preheat the incoming air. You might have to disconnect the air cleaner hose temporarily. I don't think there is a set temperature where starting difficulties occur. It varies by manufacturer and engine. The John Deere 30 series of tractors were particularly cold blooded.

Dean

[Ignoramus13667]

Thanks. Are you saying that my diesel would be completely unable to run at, say, -10F (a realistic temperature in Northern IL)? Or, would I be able to start if I warm up the engine with, say, a propane torch?

I will check out starting fluid. Is it necessary even with electrical starters?

i

[Tim Keating]

The ones who have no electricity will be the ones who complain !!

It happened to me (recv'd complaint) after "Frances" rolled thru and I fired up my diesel genny. :-(

I recommend storing the unit inside and then rolling it outside when needed. Otherwise the unit may not work (corrosion) when needed.

Definitely build a noise enclosure. A temporary one will do in a pinch.. surrounding unit with Garbage can's, bags of lawn clippings, etc can knock off 10 to 20 dB. A better solution would include building a pair vibration isolated forced air cooled plywood boxes around the genny.

I would skip the concrete pad. I used large concrete patio tiles

18"x18", and they seamed to magnify the ground & house vibration. :-(

My next setup will have multiple layers of shock isolation.. isolation pads. Air filled 8" rubber wheels.. Soil indentation for wheels, etc. It's a work in progress..

[Ignoramus13667]

Absolutely. As of now, the generator is stored in my shed and can be rolled out when needed, easily.

Can you describe this "pair vibration isolated forced air cooled plywood boxes" please, thanks.

I will put some rubber pad between them. The generator is on caster wheels anyway.

i

[Tim Keating]

Basically, it's two boxes with no solid physical contact between them.. Setup vents so that they are offset in both vertical and horizontal dimensions..

I.E.. top view only.. used fixed pitched font.. not to scale..

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP P4xx A A 4xxP Pxx4 pppppppppppppppppppppp xx4P Pv p2x4 2x42p P Pv p pv P Pv p pv P Pv p pv P P pvF genny pv P P pvF p Pv P pvF p Pv P pvF p Pv P p2x4 2x4p Pv P4xx pppppppppppppppppppppp 4xxPv Pxx4 A A xx4P PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

designations. 4xx PT.. 4"x4"x8' (set in ground) xx4

2x4 PT 2"x4"x8' (set in ground) P thicker plywood.. p thinner plywood., A Material to block airflow..low density foam..etc. (Not shown, must also block all air gaps between top of the two boxes) (Make redundant barriers too insure air flows to/from outside of boxes) v vents in plywood. (exact size, location to be determined). F 110v AC powered fans mounted on plywood. Multiple units,individually inlined fused, connected directly to genny output. (Three 100cfm+ muffin fans will probably do the job.) Mount two of them so they blow air directly onto the engine and one blows air over the alternator.

You might want to reconsider replacing them with larger air filled wheels.. Casters may dig into soft ground as you try to move it. (Murhpy is waiting for his chance).

[Tim Keating]

Basically, it's two boxes with no solid physical contact between them.. Setup vents so that they are offset in both vertical and horizontal dimensions..

I.E.. top view only.. used fixed pitched font.. not to scale..

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP P4xx A A 4xxP Pxx4 pppppppppppppppppppppp xx4P Pv p2x4 2x42p P Pv p pv P Pv p pv P Pv p pv P P pvF genny pv P P pvF p Pv P pvF p Pv P pvF p Pv P p2x4 2x4p Pv P4xx pppppppppppppppppppppp 4xxPv Pxx4 A A xx4P PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

designations. 4xx PT.. 4"x4"x8' (set in ground) xx4

2x4 PT 2"x4"x8' (set in ground) P thicker plywood.. p thinner plywood., A Material to block airflow..low density foam..etc. (Not shown, must also block all air gaps between top of the two boxes) (Make redundant barriers too insure air flows to/from outside of boxes) v vents in plywood. (exact size, location to be determined). F 110v AC powered fans mounted on plywood. Multiple units,individually inlined fused, connected directly to genny output. (Three 100cfm+ muffin fans will probably do the job.) Mount two of them so they blow air directly onto the engine and one blows air over the alternator.

You might want to reconsider replacing them with larger air filled wheels.. Casters may dig into soft ground as you try to move it. (Murhpy is waiting for his chance).

[Ignoramus13667]

Thanks, excellent picture.

It's okay, it is basically movable on these wheels and I have some concrete walkways.

i

[Robert]

Petroleum oil will thicken as the temperature drops and make the engine harder to turn over. Use of a synthetic oil will make life easier on the starter.

Keeping the battery indoors when not in use will assure full power in the winter.

Look into getting glow plug for the engine to simplify winter starts.

[Ignoramus13667]

You are talking about lubrication, right? If so, point taken and noted, I will try synthetic oil when Ichange oil in the engine.

Excellent point, I will keep it indoor and well charged with a trickle charger.

Um, I do not think that there is any place on the engine for "glow plugs"...

i

[Dale Eastman]

If you can mitigate the fuel gelling problem, don't use D1. It's basically kerosene. It cost's more and has less energy. Some over the road (OTR) trucks need the D1 in order to stay running. What happens is as the diesel OIL gets cold, the paraffins (wax) start to precipitate out of the oil. The temp that this starts is called the cloud point. As the D OIL gets colder, it starts to GEL. The fuel in the tank looks like a wax slushy. At some point colder still the fuel reaches the pour point. (Actually the un-pour point).

Wax particulates don't go through fuel filters. In my case, my truck had a cummins N14 (i-6 14 liter). This particular engine will pump and inject gelled fuel.... If you can get it through the filter. The solution cost me $200. A 55 watt 12 volt fuel heater, that looks like a hocky puck screws in between the filter and the filter head. In the case of this N14, the electric heater was only needed for getting the fuel past the filter until the fuel return from the motor transferred enough warmed fuel back to the tank to un-gel it.

This particular motor was electronic injection timed. Prior to getting the insurance of the fuel heater, I had the experience of shutting off the motor at -5F. Even with an 8 hour cold soak, this motor started the next morning. Find a way to keep your fuel above 10F (YMMV) and fuel will not be a problem. In most cases, once the motor is running, the fuel return will put heat back in the tank.

NO! NO! NO! Ether / starting fluid washes the oil film off the cylinder walls. The subsequent wear will make the motor lose compression. That makes the motor HARDER to start. In effect, diesels can be made ether dependent. I don't recollect, does the O.P. have a garage? And is it attached or otherwise not left to drop to exterior ambient temps?

Compared to a truck diesel, this application is considered "fixed". (even though the genny is on wheels). There are other ways to solve the problem.

The heat from the compression is what ignites the injected fuel mist. If there is not enough latent heat in the air mass being compressed, there will be insufficient temp when compressed to ignite the fuel. The fix is quite simple. The military deuce 'n' a halls had airbox heaters. All you need is a propane torch, or a cooking burner head from wallmart. You could even use sterno. Size your design according to your heat need, which you will have to test.

If you still had electric, you could use your wife's hair dryer.

Yep. see above.

NO! NO! NO! Why would you want to risk "dusting" the engine?

Yep. Yep. Yep.

[Dale Eastman]

NO! NO! NO! See my other post.

[Joseph Meehan]

I have no idea. The manufacturer should have those specs for you.

That depends on the design of the engine. My diesel cars have started without a complaint at 21F below. The gasoline cars were having problems. Check with the manufacturer for the specs for this. Also using a synthetic oil will help as it does not thicken as much when cold.

See the manufacturer's specs. It depends on the engine.

A small shed with an electric light bulb can make a lot of difference You may need to remove the shed when you start it.

[m Ransley]

A diesel , no electric start, no glow plugs, and you say it is easy to crank. Id suggest you do a compression test before you spend alot of time. Also run it with a full load, That is a high compression motor and if your De Walt turns it it may be worn out.

[Rory Johnson]

You _really_ don't want to do that. I just failed a piston trying to get my engine going on starting fluid. Only upside is that I now know much more about the engine than I had planned on.

Rory

[Dean Hoffman]

It probably wouldn't run on #2 diesel. My experience with a diesel pickup and a diesel generator and trencher seems to point to about 5º F as the low temperature range for #2. You should be able to find a winter blend of fuel for winter time or use a diesel fuel additive. A little bit of additive goes a long way and it's not too expensive. Either one should be done before the weather gets cold or you might have some problems. Using a winter blend or #2 with additive should keep it going for you I think. Look at all the semis and snow moving equipment that run in your area or farther north. One thing I didn't mention with the starting fluid. Don't use it if your generator motor has aluminum heads. You'll probably need to use the starting fluid or preheat the intake manifold air once the temperature drops too much regardless of the electric start. You'll find that temperature point by trial and error on your engine. Use your torch or something else to heat the incoming air. Don't use the torch and starting fluid at the same time. Starting fluid used to contain ether and maybe still does.

Dean

[Vaughn]

Particularly if you give them an extension cord connected to the thing.

Vaughn