Pete, you and I both know that an empty gas cylinder is not the same as a
balky battery pack. Anyone who has owned more than one cordless tool
already knows from their own experience how different the two concepts are.
An LP gas cylinder really has no internals to go bad. When you recharge it,
you are recharging a total empty container. A battery pack contains a lot
of very expensive batteries. Even at wholesale they will perhaps cost
$1000. There is no comparison to LP in that vector. Returned, it's empty
and contents worth zero. Once you let a say $3000 retail battery pack out
of your site, new off the dealer's floor, do you *really* believe, just by
rough statistical inference, you'll get an almost battery pack in exchange?
I'm not knocking you, I think that eventually that will be the way things
are done and it will happen quickly when and if battery sizes can be
standardized enough. And when gasoline companies decide to institute the
system in most of their stations. And when the carmaker puts a coop deal in
place with one or more gas retailers. And when people would be willing to
join essentially a hi-tech battery rental club like Blockbuster because you
would need to prevent the fraud that's likely to occur with items worth $1K
or over. The scammers will eventually figure out a way to game the system
and collect expired packs to swap into the system for good ones. I just
don't see people willing to take the chance.
The only way this works is if the company doing the fueling actually owns
the batteries, has a wide enough chain of stations to guarantee its*
usefulness to the people. Customers will probably have to join a club and
submit to vetting because even empty, a discharged battery pack has
tremendously more value than a dead LP cylinder. The opportunity for
hanky-panky is enormous. Why do you think most stores won't accept returned
battery packs for most nearly anything? No way to tell how much value has
been sucked out of it. If people are ripping off copper pipes, they figure
out how to go for tasty, fresh lithium ion cells in a new swapped battery.
There's one even worse scenario. You've forgotten to recharge at home and
now you're forced to go to the Stop'n'Swap. That nice new 200 mile per
charge battery of yours gets swapped out for one at the end of its life
cycle that provides maybe only 150 miles. If what you mostly do is charge
your own car at home that translates into a significant, perceptible loss of
value in one swap.
There are lots and lots and lots of obstacles to getting this one right, but
I think it is the right way to go and we'll get there eventually.
I hear you, and want to believe that's going to work, but in a world where
I've seen people actually cut out the original tape from a rental VHS tape
and replace it with a poorly made copy during my two month stint as a video
clerk, I think swapped $1 to 3K battery packs represent great temptation.
Hell, I saw a notice at the pizzeria from the Feds warning that the bleach
and upgrade people were back making $5's into $50's, a laborious process, to
be sure. People are just no damn good and I ain't swapping them the battery
in my electric car until I know it's dying! (-:
I've got more than a fear what will evolve are superchargers that plug into
a special 408V 50A circuits you get installed in your garage and they'll
flash charge your batteries in 5 minutes. Sure, there will be some
meltdowns, maybe a few explosions but Americans are NOT big swappers of
really expensive stuff. There's no time sharer owner I know of that doesn't
have "The Timeshare From Hell" story.
But seriously, I've seen battery current capacity rise constantly over the
last 20 years. Every new rechargeable NiMH cell has a little more MaH's
capacity than the last and there are (were?) AA cells that charged in 15
minutes or less.
I think "fast charge" stations will be the future, and not "swap charge"
*"its/it's" have got to be the worst words in the world. Why? Because IT'S
very illogical in ITS usage. The way we say things like "This is Pete's
message" implies possession, but it's ITS meaning is clear" even though.
How fair is that? It's almost as bad as those treacherous twos. Too many,
too different to be useful. And if three twos aren't enough, there are
If the battery pack is made too easy to change, you'll have people
coming back to their parked EV and no battery pack. A while back
we had some country boys who were stealing catalytic converters off
parked cars, it was so fast and easy for them to swipe them. A number
of folks were left with an expensive repair bill. I wonder what the
auto insurance companies are going to do to handle the high cost of
electric vehicle repairs and replacements?
One possible solution to that problem would be to embed an encrypted
serial number in a chip that's permanently encased inside the battery
pack, where you'd have to tear apart and destroy the entire battery
pack to get to it. The chip would be ROM that is only programmable
with the serial # once at the factory. That would uniquely identify
the individual battery, it's date of manufacture, etc. It could also
allow storage of a table that would contain information showing each
time it was charged, how low it was when the charge started, finished,
Are you sure there is no technical way to determine it? I would bet
that with the right test equipment you could determine with some
degree of confidence the condition of the battery pack.
I costs too much and it always will because you have to generate the
electricity. When we have cheap electricity then that is doable. Wind
generators are expensive and solar too.
Slowly, but indefinitely, from
It's not being pursued due to both the extreme ineffficiency of
electrical hydrogen production which makes only high energy density
"green" electricity sources such as nuclear and hydroelectric (tidal and
conventional) the only practical energy sources to produce hydrogen
"greenly", and the huge issues with storing enough hydrogen in a motor
vehicle to give it a useable range and the long refill time required
which makes it that much more impractical.
You really need to research beyond the hype and understand the science
and the limitations.
Ah, but the question a logical person would ask is: "What then?"
Unless the homemade electrolysis machine is being used to fill a balloon,
the produced gas now has to be compressed. The compressor will use more
energy than the captured Hydrogen will ever produce.
Not really, the technology works reasonably well. The DEF tanks on most
of these vehicles hold enough for about 5,000mi, so it's not really any
more difficult than filling up your washer fluid.
I have a 2009 diesel with just the DPF and it works just fine, and I'm
ok with it not blowing clouds of black soot everywhere.
Dunno on that, but of course Hydrogen isn't an energy source, just a
carrier and isn't "green" unless the hydrogen is produced from a "green"
energy source like nuclear, wind, solar or hydro.
I recall BMW did/does have a diesel car that utilized a DPF and possibly
I'm not sure how other manufacturers are doing it, but Sprinters have two
separate types of systems. The earlier 2007-2009 use particulate filters,
and the 2010 began using Adblu urea and don't have particulate filters. In
the Sprinter blog there are several posts from members that have paid $3000
for particulate filter replacement. They also talk about having them cleaned
for $500. As far as the price of Def, two weeks ago I needed some and the
best I was able to get it for was $10 a gallon. I'm told Mercedes gets $20,
so I didn't feel too bad. Here's a site that explains the Sprinter systems:
I have read that Pilot and TA truckstops have it at the pump for $3, but I
don't have either near me. I'm sure, like any other fertilizer, if you buy
it in bulk, it's dirt cheap. The problem with Def is that it has a two year
shelf life, so you can't even stock up
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.