Did you know this about The Gas Company?

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Why would that be inherent to all news readers? I find it hard to believe, but if it is, then it's a good reason to use Google Groups, no such problems there. I see all the messages in a nice tree format.
Later, much longer than 10

No such problems with Google Groups. Not saying you should use it, just that it seems a lot of folks here slam GG, yet it has some compelling advantages. Not sure this is one of them though,. It may be that you have a crappy client-based news reader.

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On 10/11/2012 8:10 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:
...

GG has no redeeming features other than a long retention period, period... :)
Amongst other things, they are the source of a sizable majority of spam across all of usenet and their web-based client screws up a sizable fraction of its postings as they're broadcast by such things as inserting spurious linefeeds (altho that seems to have been patched to a certain degree recently it was so that any reply to an existing thread that was posted from GG for a while had an extra LF inserted at each line so that soon one might find a posting that had only one or sometimes even not actual text on a page).
Threading (or not) is dependent on the view chosen in most (if not all) clients...and, of course, on the server and the posting clients following protocol to allow it to not be broken...
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wrote:

The person complained about wrote his reply post B right after reading post A. But some of us red post A hours ago or yesterday, not 10 seconds ago We don't know what B is talking about. I reed a few posts, then go on to another newsgroup and reed and reply there, or do my email, or and often look up something on the web, and even if B was posted 10 minutes after A, I don't see it until hours later. Why doesn't A quote, like everyone else?.
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If I understand what you're saying, it appears you read a post and then reply to it hours or a day later without seeing what has been posted since? If that is the case, I would think you'd have a lot of problems with your operating method.
As for posts taking hours to show up, I use Google Groups and I see posts from various posters on this group showing up within a few minutes. I know because sometimes I'll post something and just a few minutes later someone else has replied. Sometimes we've exchanged several back and forths in less than an hour. It sounds like your ewgroup service just sucks, or your client isn't echanging with the server regularly, which could be a setting issue.
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On 10/11/2012 8:18 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

Not everybody stays logged in continuously nor does everybody read every subthread of every thread...nor should you presume and write as if you're having a conversation w/ any one individual--there are any number of folks coming in/out of any thread at any time. It's a posters duty to ensure they all have the pertinent pieces at hand.
Therefore, quoting (and eliding) judiciously is only polite and good netiquette--there is absolutely _no_ guarantee anybody will see anything on usenet--nntp is inherently _not_ an error-free protocol--while messages aren't routinely dropped there's no guarantee they aren't and certainly propagation times are extremely variable altho again most are pretty good most of the time, the operative word there is "most"...
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Which is exactly what I was saying with regard to his apparent operating procedures. If one reads a thread and then replies hours or a day later without looking at what's transpired since, they are bound to have problems.

I agree.
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On 10/11/2012 8:50 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

No, I'm saying essentially the obverse--it's the initial (and subsequent as well, of course) poster's job to maintain enough context in his reply that the subthread can stand on its own w/o needing to go down every possible rabbit warren that may have grown up since...
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I don't see what you are saying as being the obverse. The poster is saying that he reads a post, then makes a reply to it hours to a day later. So, let's say everyone follows your procedure, to the extent that's possible, and includes much of the original post, pertinent replies, etc. If the OP's last read of the thread was yesterday, he's still going to have major problems, because he hasn't seen anything that has transpired since.
I agree it's a good idea to keep enough info in a post so that it makes it easy to follow, as you suggest. But if you read and then wait hours to a day to reply, that's a problem specific to the poster.
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On 10/11/2012 11:22 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

I think you're misinterpreting the complaint...he's replying to some particular posting in the subthread--what he was complaining about was that he may have read further upthread in the same thread some time previous but didn't respond at that time for whatever reason. Now he comes back later and picks up somewhere in a later portion but the previous poster hasn't quoted sufficiently to know context at this later date and so he either has to be able to recall previous discussion or go upthread and read other postings to find that context.
It's not so much the time that's the problem; it's that there's no longer context and that's because the previous poster trimmed too much (or didn't/doesn't quote at all I think in the complained-of case, actually)...
I browse newsgroups much as that as well...if context is gone I'll generally just kill the thread rather than digging it out unless there's something vitally interesting that makes it worthy of the effort. A few observations of a given poster acting that way soon generates another entry in the 'ignore thread' filter file (just as a particular top-poster here has been "soft-plonked" for his rudeness in persisting in that particular fault. :) )
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Exactly.

Right, notthing at all.
Exactly.

Yes,

And yes.
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That's not the problem. Often no one else has replied (especially when nothing was quoted) , or the replies don't explain what the guy who doesn't quote was talking about.

Yes, I forgot about that.

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On 10/9/2012 10:54 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Well, the problem w/ that link is that it has a page-and-a-half of addenda/updates listed that are thereby incorporated by reference. So, unless one looks through all of those to find the latest that is applicable one doesn't have the full story. In particular, I see a reference to a Section 192 that isn't there and it seems to bear the brunt of activity.
That said, if certainly seems to be another case of overkill in nanny-stateism. (I forget, is CA one of the "can't pump your own gasoline 'cuz you're too stupid to put the hose back up" states, too?)
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As I understand it Section 192 is a part of Title 49 of CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). Looks like the same nanny is in your house too.
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On 10/9/2012 1:24 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I'd be real surprised if that clause re: residential shutoff is in Title 49 and didn't read the whole list carefully enough to see what else is in the references but it surely is not obvious w/o more than just that reference the proscription is really there--wouldn't be first time somebody has made up something to suit themselves and blamed it on bureaucracy on the almost certain knowledge they'll never get called on it. :)
I've never seen/heard of not shutting off gas if needed being only a utility function here, certainly...of course, we're on a tap off a major pipeline(+) not on a municipal distribution system but never heard anybody in town mention such a thing, either.
(+) Grandfather made it part of condition for the lease/right-of-way when original line constructed across the homeplace. Back then they didn't much care; now it might be tough to win on I don't know.
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In my area, there is always a valve ahead of the meter and another just past it on the customer side. The gas company has a seal on the valve ahead of the meter and a tag that says it's for their use only. The other valve, after the meter, is for the consumer's use.
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On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 22:31:22 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lNoOnSePsAtMar.org (Larry W) wrote:

which varies from quite low to reasonably high. Post meter is regulated pressure (very low).
Also, if someone of low integrity was allowed to shut off the gas before the meter, they COULD tap in ahead of the meter and use unmetered gas. Shutting off after the meter and tapping in, it is still metered (and paid for) gas.
Around here, there is no wire on the pre-meter valve, and the post-meter valves are generally "pre-appliance" - and inside the house.
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On Oct 10, 7:43pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Interesting explanation. But here in NJ the arrangement is as you describe and the gas company, AFAIK, doesn't get their shorts in a knot if you shut all the gas off using the valve before the meter.
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Harbor Freight used to have item 94310, I have one. Gas shut off wrench. Good idea to have one near the meter, but they are no longer for sale.
Ebay to the rescue: http://www.ebay.com/itm/House-Gas-Shut-Off-Tool-Earth-Quake-Wrench-/230861356709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c068bea5
Or, you can save your life! With the made in USA tool: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earthquake-Hurricane-Tornado-Emergency-Gas-Shut-Off-Wrench-Tool-FREE-SHIP-/230849783957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bfb82895
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/House-Gas-Shut-Off-Tool-Earth-Quake-Wrench-/230861356709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c068bea5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Earthquake-Hurricane-Tornado-Emergency-Gas-Shut-Off-Wrench-Tool-FREE-SHIP-/230849783957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bfb82895
10-12 in crescent wrench does the job and has for over 50 years in our world.
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Those, or pipe wrenches do the job nicely. The dorky gas tool is nice, for people who don't know about Crescent wrenches.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
10-12 in crescent wrench does the job and has for over 50 years in our world.
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