Dehumidifier specs??

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My neighbor thinks her knee pain is related to humidity. To test that theory, I looked into dehumidifiers. But I'm hopelessly confused. About the only specs I find are "pints/24 hours removed". Under what conditions? The "buyer's guides" talk about conditions ranging from wet to extremely humid.
I'm looking to take air at 68F from 65 to 40 percent RH or thereabouts. Looking at some of the engineering data suggests that the dew point is very low and it'll be a LOT harder to do that than to get from 100% to 80% on a 95F day. Outside temp is 45F or so this part of the year. The house is pretty "tight".
What are my options to construct an experiment? She has central air, so I could alternate between heat and cooling???? But that sounds like a lot more cooling than dehumidifying.
Ideas?
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All I can say is humidifier ratings are for above 70f and higher humidities and some dont even perform at rated spec as Ive returned a few that were cheap junk, so at 68f it might do half of rated amount. I think she is wrong but why not get a good rated unit and just let her dehumidify her bedroom, if it is a cause there is a good place to start. How big is the home, 65% is not high at all. A bicycle solved my knee issues, and alcohol will make them hurt all the time.
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Related to humidity -How? Worse or better when humidity is low/high???
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Central air IS a dehumidifier that also cools.
A store-bought dehumidifier is basically a window A/C brought inside, except neater, and with a net heating effect.
I believe a heat pump will also dehumidify.
So you will need a HD-type dehumidifier only in the winter, and then not all that often.
There is proly some limbo-temperature where you would conceivably want to run the A/C, and then also run some heat.
I have found the HD jobbies to produce prodigious amounts of water, and be pretty reliable. A friend's Sears went kaput right away, one of my HD's seems to be acting up, but 2 others are still good after a few years.
Regarding knee pain, as rainsley pointed alluded to, diet and exercise can be a big factor. Diet no-no's: any food sensitivities, crap like orange soda's (Slice, Fanta, et al) with boucou artificial flavors/colorings, etc. A rice-based diet is an excellent core diet. Add peripheral foods as required. Yes-yes's: gluscosamine, chondroiten, msm. More yes-yes's: vits A, E, C, and always always a good multi (Kirkland Mature multi is good, no iron). Also has a decent glucosamine formula.
Yes yes yes yes yes: suitable exercise, hyperflexion of the knee (for some), and often inversion.
--
EA


> Ideas?



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Existential Angst wrote:

Thanks for the nutrition info, but it's not me you need to convince. I've been asked to solve a particular problem, humidity. I can cooperate and address what she wants addressed or argue with her over weather related pain she's experiencing.
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wrote:

The Haier HD unit I got last summer and returned put out half is rated output, I guess I wasnt lucky on that one but verifying output in this day an age of cheap import junk is important
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I'd say it's somewhat unusual for humidity to be at 65 inside when it's 45 outside. With the heat running part of the time to keep it warm, I'd expect it to be more like 50 or below. Have you tried more than one humidity gauge?
What size de-humdifier you need also depends on what isn't stated, which is how big the house is. To do a whole house, I'd say you want one of the larger units. Better to err on the side of a little too big than too small. If you plan on running it long term as opposed to an experiment, I'd give consideration on where to locate it so that you can set it up to be self-draining.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Unusual or not, she wants to try the humidity LOWER than it currently is. Have you tried more

Yes, but doesn't matter. Want it LOWER.
Thank you all for input, but I'm not getting anything like what I asked for. I didn't ask what size. I asked how measured. If dehumidifiers are rated (rather vaguely) at high humidity and high temperature, what performance can I expect at much lower temperatures and humidities?
Again, I'm not interested in arguing the concept with my neighbor. I'm interested in helping her achieve what she asks for, lower humidity. I'm attempting to determine if a typical dehumidifier will be effective given the initial conditions.

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Dont expect what the unit is rated at, most units may freeze up below 68, at 68 I will guess 65-80% of rated output. If it gets below 68 get a low temp model. Its a house so get the biggest unit, a 70-75pint if its near 1000 sq ft and even then that might not be enough depending on the construction of the house. I can run two units 120 pint total in a tight 1900 sq ft place and get maybe 35-45% drop. You gave no info on the house so who knows you might need, 4 units or one, thats why I think try it in the bedroom since thats where alot of time is spent. You really have to just buy one and try it but the small units can be a waste of time and energy. I bought a 50pt HD Haier that pulled out 25pt at 70f and consumed about 410 watts. I have a 65pint old sears thats pulls 435 watts and removes near 55-60 pint, the Sears is Energy Star rated the New HD haiers are not Energy Star rated that I got last july, I returned it . You dont give any house info to figure whats needed, so maybe you need 10 of them.
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Dont expect what the unit is rated at, most units may freeze up below 68, at 68 I will guess 65-80% of rated output. If it gets below 68 get a low temp model. Its a house so get the biggest unit, a 70-75pint if its near 1000 sq ft and even then that might not be enough depending on the construction of the house. I can run two units 120 pint total in a tight 1900 sq ft place and get maybe 35-45% drop. You gave no info on the house so who knows you might need, 4 units or one, thats why I think try it in the bedroom since thats where alot of time is spent. You really have to just buy one and try it but the small units can be a waste of time and energy. I bought a 50pt HD Haier that pulled out 25pt at 70f and consumed about 410 watts. I have a 65pint old sears thats pulls 435 watts and removes near 55-60 pint, the Sears is Energy Star rated the New HD haiers are not Energy Star rated that I got last july, I returned it . You dont give any house info to figure whats needed, so maybe you need 10 of them.
=========================================================
Problem is, they are generally noisy. Actually, worse than an old window rattler. I use a HD ditty in my shop (about 750 sq ft), seems to help quite a bit. But anywhere else, I'd have to operate it when I'm not there.
Amazing, those diffs. in performance. This would be a perfect thing for CR to rate -- even they should be able to get something like this mostly right.... :)
--
EA






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wrote:

CR does rate dehumidifiers, I dont know when it was updated last but I read it, some are noisier than others.
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If she has forced air heat and is not running a humidifier, her indoor humidity is likely already 30-40% this time of year. I know mine would be; it's *never* in the "ideal" zone of 45-55% unless I modify it somehow other than for maybe a week or two out of the year. In the summer, it's always humid, and when the furnace runs, it's always dry.
So... this time of year pretty much any humidifier should work, although make sure that it can be set low enough to make a noticeable difference (e.g. the one in my basement, which I believe is a Frigidaire brand, I think the minimum setting, other than "continuous" is 40% RH)
nate
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I suggest just picking up a cheap HD model and plug it in. After a few days, if she is still complaining then tell her its not the humidity. If she still complains that the dehumidifier is not working properly, act like you're adjusting it and add some water to it when she isn't looking. A few days later show her the added water and I'll bet she starts to feel better...
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I'm not impressed with this dehumidifier discussion. The best dehumidifier right now is to open the door. By the physics, cold air holds very little moisture. Bring that cold, dry air in, and heat it to 70 degrees, and you will be getting close to the relative humidity of the Sahara Desert. I suspect that the neighbor has become accustomed to the changing barometric pressure and its associated weather, and has drarn the relationship to the observed moisture levels rather than the unobserved barometric pressure. Push on her sternum with the soft pad of your thumb. It should not hurt.

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And I'm sure most of us here are not impressed with your approach, because it has two problems:
1 - It assumes that it is fairly cold where they are located. The OP stated that is was 45 outside. Raising 45 degree air to 70 isn't going to be as effective as it you were raising 20 degree air. We also don't know what the humidity outside is. If it's 45 and damp, obviously you have a problem.
2 - But the far bigger problem is opening the door is a huge waste of energy and dollar bills are flying out the door. A dehumidifier removes the moisture and the electric energy it uses turns up as heat which helps heat the house. It's like getting a small portion of your heat from electricity, so unlike the open door approach, where you are losing heat, you are GAINING heat with a dehumidifier.
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On Feb 1, 7:14am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Thats a good point, analog Humidistats are sold out of calibration, most digital are better , but do they even know what it really is? It is most likely alot lower, today Its 31 outside and 38% inside on a calibrated humidistat right infront of me, 65% you dont untill its near 70 and raining out. What the lady needs is a bicycle that is used 1/2hr a day
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And in the final analysis, I'm not sure that it makes all that much difference exactly how various manufacturers rate their units. How much they take out is only one part of the equation. The other is how much humidity is being put into the air from various sources. Knowing one without the other wouldn't seem to solve the problem. From a practical standpoint, I wouldn't over analyze it. Since it's apparently a whole house, I'd just buy one of the bigger units at a good price from a store where I know the return policy will allow me to bring it back if it doesn't do the job.
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mike wrote:

Hi, Where do you live? Knee joint pain? Humidity does not cause pain. Inflammation coming from joint tissue stiffening. It can be 3 different cases. Osteo athritis, Rheumatoid, Uric acid accumulation. Narrow down the cause and start treating it. There are such food which makes pain worse as well. For test purpose you can boil water generating lot of steam in a room. A/C unit already drys air pretty good.
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Tony Hwang wrote:

Barometric pressure changes can make joints hurt until the inside pressure of the bones equalize with the ambient pressure. That's why people say they know when it's going to rain, normally the barometric pressure falls before the rain arrives so they have more pain. A lot of people tie this into it actually raining, and/or humidity, and can convince themselves quite easily that the actual rain, or humidity effects the joint pain. I always found the humidity wives tale funny. Does the humidity inside your knee change with the ambient humidity? Of course not.
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Very inneresting, and make some sense -- altho, the barometric pressure would proly have to change pretty quickly for this to be an issue, no? The "bends" in joints?! :) Where did you come across this tidbit?
I would imagine a good test of this would be driving up in altitude. Any idea of what the barometric change is per 1,000 feet elevation, and what the typical change in pressure before rain?
--
EA



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