Debate over mandatory spriklers

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There's a lot of different people out there. Some can whomp out a fire with an extinguisher, do the salvage and such. Others, it's a virtual death sentence, to go after a fire. I like the smoke detectors, the other things (sprinklers and fire extinguishers) oughta be personal choice.
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Christopher A. Young
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Outside of high rises. Anything over about 6 stories should get sprinklers because that is generally about as high as most ladder can get by the time you get setback, etc., out of the way. In the City County Building in Ft. Wayne, because the bldg had a underground garage the largest ladder could only get to the third floor. Guess which the floor the FWFD occupied?
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John Grabowski wrote:

Not only many towns...
When someone tells me there's no private substitute for some governmental entities - like fire and police - I like to point out that there are MANY more private security guards on the job than cops and that 85% of the nation's firefighters are volunteers.
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Good one! That really puts government in perspective.
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Christopher A. Young
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

And most wars in history were fought by (or helped by) mercenaries.
The original British Navy was founded by a gift of warships by British merchants ("Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves...").
The Pony Express was a private outfit.
And so on.
On another matter:
Ran into an interesting statistic on health care, particularily the president's claim that there is too little competition. Consider Maine where two companies have 88% of the insurance business (Wellpoint 78% and Aetna 10%).
Ah, but 52% of the employers in Maine SELF-INSURE and merely hire some companies to manage the paperwork (much like administering payrolls). That means that Wellpoint (in this example), the largest insurer in the state, manages only 37% of the health insurance in the state. Wellpoint is in "competition" with thousands of medium-sized businesses that self-insure.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/09/16/john-lott-health-care-claims-obama/
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Sounds like over kill for a kitchen fire. However, one town where I used to live. They had a stretch of apartments that were tinder boxes. We in the FD all had heart flutters when we heard "wintergreen way" on the air.
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Christopher A. Young
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Your ignorance is astounding. Please let me attempt to replace ignorance with facts.
1) Generally, sprinklers reduce water and fire damage. Non sprinklered areas, the fire gets a much better "hold". Also, fire departments have been known to do water damage. 2) Each individual head has a low melting point metal, or some other way of activating. The only way to wash the TV is if the sprinkler head gets hot enough for the fusible metal to melt.
Like the auto shutoff feature. Good idea.
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Sprinklers generally don't let fires get big enuff to bring out the truckies which means vast expanses of roof remain intact (g).

The other thing is that only the ones that are near the fire go off. I always get a kick out of the TV when a small fire in a corner kicks off the sprinklers throughout the entire warehouse. About the same as when the car ALWAYS catches fire after a wreck.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

In some sprinkler systems, when one goes off, they all go off. Better to be wet than blown into the ocean.
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Please post evidence. I've never seen such.
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Deluge systems "Deluge" systems are systems that have open sprinklers, i.e. the heat sensing operating element is removed or specifically designed open sprinklers, so that all sprinklers connected to the water piping system are open. These systems are used for special hazards where rapid fire spread is a concern, as they provide a simultaneous application of water over the entire hazard. They are commonly seen as preventative measures to prevent egress of fire from an external source (eg hi-rise windows, warehouse bay entries, over openings in a fire-rated wall)
Water is not present in the piping until the system operates. Because the sprinkler orifices are open, the piping is at atmospheric pressure. To prevent the water supply pressure from forcing water into the piping, a deluge valve is used in the water supply connection, which is a mechanically latched valve. It is a non-resetting valve, and stays open once tripped.
Because the heat sensing elements present in the automatic sprinklers have been removed (resulting in open sprinklers), the deluge valve must be opened as signaled by a specialized fire alarm system. The type of fire alarm initiating device is selected mainly based on the hazard (e.g., smoke detectors, heat detectors, or optical flame detectors). The initiation device signals the fire alarm panel, which in turn signals the deluge valve to open. Activation can also be manual, depending on the system goals. Manual activation is usually via an electric or pneumatic fire alarm pull station, which signals the fire alarm panel, which in turn signals the deluge valve to open.
Operation - Activation of a fire alarm initiating device, or a manual pull station, signals the fire alarm panel, which in turn signals the deluge valve to open, allowing water to enter the piping system. Water flows from all sprinklers simultaneously.
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When I took some fire protection courses, we learned about the Parmalee Perforated pipe system (it was 20 years or so ago I learned of this). Some textile mill owner put pipes overhead, with holes drilled. In case of fire, they could open the valve, and spray the entire plant. Same concept.
I doubt deluge systems will be installed in homes.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

"Deluge systems are connected to a water supply through a deluge valve that is opened by the operation of a smoke or heat detection system. The detection system is installed in the same area as the sprinklers. When the detection system is activated water discharges through all of the sprinkler heads in the system. Deluge systems are used in places that are considered high hazard areas such as power plants, aircraft hangars and chemical storage or processing facilities. Deluge systems are needed where high velocity suppression is necessary to prevent fire spread."
http://www.apifiregroup.com/firesprinkler/deluge.html
or
http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14259/css/14259_71.htm
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The original context was how sprinkler always all came on on TV and how unlike real life that is. Unless people are having nuclear reactors or refineries or some kinds of warehouses storing highly flammable haz materials in their homes, it is still very unrealistic. Probably about as many deluge systems going off over the course of a year as cars actually blowing up.
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Thanks, you're exactly correct. Of course, those aren't often used in residences.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Neither are any kind of sprinklers. Only the stroke of a pen is required to make them mandatory.
It's for the children.
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"The pen is mightier than the brain".
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YOU have such a vivid imagination at times.
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On Sep 18, 8:46pm, "Stormin Mormon"

Those are known as deluge sprinkler systems. The individual heads are open and only covered with a light weight dust cover to keep hte heads clear of accumulations that might interfere with the discharge pattern. Deluge systems are used to protect occupancies like cotton mills, explosives and pyrotechnic manufacturing, and aircraft hangers were there is a danger of flash fire or the ignition of spilled flammable liquids such that the fire might spread faster than individual heads would heat up and open to the point that more heads would open then the system was designed to supply. Deluge sprinklers are often supplied with foam or other water additives that make them effective against the particular hazard for which the system is installed.
-- Tom Horne
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None that I ran into in 9 years in the fire service. Although I did not do inspections so did not have to run the numbers, it would seem that if they did all go off, you'd lose too much water pressure and they would be close to useless.
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