Dealing with insurance adjusters

[trader4]

Any experiences with how to deal with insurance adjusters for roof damage and interior water damage repairs, eg re-taping drywall, painting?

This is from Sandy last fall. Had the adjuster out today. Couldn't do the roof because the roof was wet. But we did get into it over the interior painting. Basically shingles blew off letting water into the cathedral ceiling of my large great room and foyer. Ceiling and walls of those rooms needs to be done. The great room and foyer run into each other, so for simplicity you can just visualize it as one very large 30 x 25 , two story room, with

4 walls. In addition to being a cathedral ceiling, part is also over stairs. A ceiling in one small bedroom also needs to be done.

They initially pegged this last Fall at $619 for the interior work, without coming out. Which is obviously a joke. I got two painters for estimates. One quoted $3850, the other $4000. I thought they were on the high side.

So, today the Allstate adjuster was here. It was something else. This woman spent an unbelievable amount of time measuring everything to the last inch. Here's an example of the process. The wall at the front of the house needs to be repainted. It's a contemporary with 7 large windows that form part of that wall. I'd say the windows and the double entry doors amount to 75% of the wall area. So, what does the adjuster do? She calculates the square footage of the wall, and then subtracts OUT the windows and doors.

She says they only paint areas that need to be painted. I say that any painter will tell you that you should ADD for all those windows, because you have to cut in around each one and you could just paint a wide open wall for less than you can paint a wall with all that work. That fell on deaf ears.

After an hour and 45 mins of measuring and computing, I managed to get another $700 out of them. $200 of that was for damage to a sofa, unrelated to the interior drywall/painting. So, she's telling me that $1119 is the cost to repair the drywall, seal, paint etc a great room and foyer that combined are 30ft x 25 ft, two stories tall. It also includes going around 6 recessed ceiling lights, two natural wood beams that cross the ceiling, dealing with a section that is over stairs with a ceiling fan. And doing sealing and repainting of one bedroom ceiling 15f tx 13ft.

I tried to point out the obvious, like going around 7 windows makes the cost go up, not down. And that it's multiple trips for the painter, because you have to do 3 coats with the drywall repair. I got nowhere. Their whole approach is use some low ball cost per square foot to paint, which would be fine if it was just one big wall. But they then take an area like the front wall, full of windows, subtract out the area of all those windows, multiply the little that is left by their low cost per sq ft., and say that covers it.

So, any ideas? Even worse, Fri they are coming back to do the roof estimate. She's already told me what to expect. They deal with it one roof slope at a time. Only if that roof slope has such extensive damage that it can't be repaired will they pay to replace it. And then they will only pay to replace the one slope, ie section. So, I ask what about the fact that 4 roof slopes face the street and three have extensive damage? You'll only replace 3? Answer: Yes. I said, but it's not going to match, it will look like hell. Her answer: We only pay to repair or replace what's damaged, not for cosmetics......

I talked to a neighbor who has State Farm. They had a roof that had less damage and SF paid to replace the whole thing. And it's not like I have cheap premiums. I was paying around $1400 a year and they have just jacked it to $1800.

Any ideas on what to do? She did suggest that I could have a roofer there to make the case for more extensive work. But I'm thinking with the above approach to painting, she wouldn't listen to reason about the work involved with painting a wall with a lot of detail, why would she listen to a roofer?

Any experience with independent adjusters? I'm wondering if I should try to find one by Fri to be here to try to reason with her?

[Chuck]

I went the independent adjuster route. Worked to my advantage. I first had the State Farm adjuster come by. They gave me an estimate. I then called an independant adjuster. He came by and met the State Farm adjuster. They both inspected everything in, outside and on top of the house. The independanrt guy got me a whole new roof, new drywall in one damaged room and pointed out m any small areas that needed repair and repainting. Go with the independant adjuster..... Good luck

[trader4]

Thanks for the info!

What did the independent adjuster cost? Was it flat fee, by the hour, by amount recovered?

[Hench]

On 3/19/2013 7:18 PM, [e-mail] wrote: ?

I'm not sure what they call them in the US, Attorney General's offices maybe?

Does your township or state have a legal office that might offer advice on a website or over the phone?

Is it worth hiring a lawyer to bat for you?

[Ed Pawlowski]

You have the right to get your own adjuster. They usually charge a percentage of the loss, but a good one will get you a bunch more money that you can negotiate on your own.

We had one after a loss at work. The difference between what the insurance offered and what the adjust got paid was hundreds of thousands of dollars. He was like a hungry pit bull and the insurance company was a very meaty steak.

A restaurant I know had a kitchen fire. Insurance offered $6000 to settle, same adjuster got $35,000 for the loss.

You may not do as well, but you can get things done right.

[WW]

Any experiences with how to deal with insurance adjusters for roof damage and interior water damage repairs, eg re-taping drywall, painting?

WW

Any ideas on what to do?

After you are done with this mess dump Allstate. They did my dad dirty on his claim. I have had American Family insurance for more than 25 years one residences and vehicles. Have had several claims in those years. They took care of things better that I thought it would cost. Have $500 deductible on house 1900 square feet and full basement, oversized 2 car garage. Live in area that has high winds several times a year. Last year stripped the shingles and "tar paper??" from rear roof side. Estimate was made at $3450.00 Roofer completely redone it perfect. Cost was $2825.00. So insurance company waved the deductible. Our policy covers full replacement at increased costs when claim is made . Insurance cost per year is less than $600.00 WW

[CRNG]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:18:50 -0700 (PDT), " [e-mail]" wrote in Re Dealing with insurance adjusters:

Get ready to take it to a lawyer. Get in line.

[harry]

I would say that due to the work load, they have taken on a lot of inexperienced people. And/or they are hoping to piss you off so you'll eventually just get the work done yourself at your own expense.

Just take note and get another insurer.

You only know how good your insurer is when you come to claim. Ask other people what their experience was in their claim before you choose a new one.

[George]

As a matter of principle dump allstate and get a better insurance company for the possible next time . My first rule is to discard the ones who advertise heavily from the running (I am sure there is a inverse proportionality between amount of advertising and quality of the company which seems to be true for all businesses). Get referrals from friends. We went with the hardly anyone knows Erie insurance after dumping allstate.

One method I have used is to simply get quotes from tradesmen to do the work and then go back to the insurance company and show them the difference. To be fair you want to pay them for their estimation services.

[George]

If you have a business sense and know how big companies operate you can accomplish a lot on your own. I always go that route first.

[Kurt Ullman]

Why? If you are thinking about using them to do the work. When I have had insurance work to be done, I still got more than one bid. I haven't paid for the ones I did not use. If you are doing it to just get a leg up and have no intention of using them, then I would agree.

[trader4]

.- Hide quoted text -

I already did that. That is how the amount for interior drywall repair, sealing, painting for a two story great room, two story entry foyer including stairs, and a bedroom ceiling went from $600 to $1100. Quotes I gave them were for $3850 and $4000. The adjuster just dismissed the quotes, saying it's easy to get a contractor to do that job for $1100. As I said, their process is to take a large wall that has 7 windows and two doors and subtract out that area. So, the wall is now only 30%. According to the adjuster, that is the area that needs to be painted, that's the proper way to do it, that is all they will pay for. I told here about

5 times that ANY painter will tell you that to go around those windows and doors ADDS to the cost instead of reducing it. If the windows/doors were not there, you could just roll the wall in no time and the difference in paint cost is not substantial. It's the labor.

[gpsman]

Stop attempting to negotiate. Contact your state insurance commission. Be prepared to divulge the name of your insurer. Keep detailed records of all your contacts. -----

- gpsman

[krw]

And then they will only pay to replace the one slope, ie section.

Sounds as if she probably is in the ballpark, and you're looking to get something for nothing.

I suppose if you got in a fender bender, you would want the entire car replaced. Insurance companies only replace what is damaged.

Quit trying to get a handout, and get a job.

[TomR]

I would say that, in your case, you should try contacting one more public adjusters in your area. Explain your situation and/or send them an excerpted copy of what you wrote here. Then ask them what they think, what they charge, etc. Public adjuster fees are negotiable, but I think they are typically something like 25% of the amount of the claim obtained plus some "costs and expenses". But, again, that is all negotiable. I have only been involved in a couple of claims over the years through where I work and one on my own property. Ordinarily, I don't involve a public adjuster because I didn't see the need for one and the claims were all fairly obvious and straight up. But in your case, and given the nonsense that Allstate is telling you, I think a public adjuster would be worth it.

In the one case where I did use a public adjuster many years ago, I didn't accept their proposed fee structure. Instead, I said that they could have the job but without any "costs or expenses" being included. And, it was so long ago that I honestly can't remember if I accepted their percentage of claim figure of 25% or if I worked out a lower percentage. They were fine with whatever the negotiated fee deal was that I offered, and they did a great job.

I don't know what today's public adjuster fees typically are, but assuming they are something like 25% of the claim plus "costs and expenses", I would negotiate something different. For example, in your case, you pretty much know what You're-Not-In-Good-Hands Allstate is going to offer you. So, maybe you can start from there. If it were me, I would say to the public adjuster that I already know what I can get without using a public adjuster, so my only reason for using one would be if I can end up with, or "net", more than that. So, if it were me, I would probably say that I won't pay any "costs or expenses", but I will pay the 25% (or whatever their typical percentage is) for any amount they get that is over and above what I already know I can get. If they didn't go for that (although I think they might), I would consider offering them a HIGHER percentage -- say 30% or even 35% -- but ONLY on the amount that is over and above what I already know I can get. That way, they get the job and make money for their efforts, and I know that I won't end up netting less than I could have gotten on my own. And, in this case, they don't have to prove the underlying claim -- you already did that and Allstate already accepted that they are going to have to pay the claim.

Another thing to consider is that public adjusters know how to include everything that should be included in the claim. For example, with water damage and a roof leak that goes in behind the walls, there is a question about mold forming in the walls. The walls and ceiling are supposed to be opened up (should have been right away) to dry out the area, and then they need to check and/or treat for mold.

As far as "matching" the rest of the roof, there is some term in the insurance policy coverage that deals with that, but I don't know what that is called. When people get their policies, they need to decide if they want that "matching" the rest of the siding, roofing, etc. type of coverage. If so, it will specify that in the policy and you pay a little more for the coverage. Otherwise, the insurance company doesn't have to exactly match the rest of the siding, roof, etc. that wasn't damaged.

If you say where you are located, someone here may be able to suggest a knowledgeable reputable, honest, and reliable public adjuster in your area. I happen to indirectly know of one in the Southeastern Pennsylvania area through a real estate investor group that I belong to, but I doubt that you are in that location. If you are, let me know and I'll pass on his info.

Good luck, and let us know how this all turns out.

[TomR]

He has a job, and he wisely uses some of the money that he earns to purchase insurance coverage for the property that he owns. All he is doing is asking the insurance company to do their job, do what he pays his insurance premiums for, and make him whole by covering the reasonable costs that he will incur to repair the damage that was caused by the covered hazard (the storm).

[trader4]

Get your head out of your ass and go f*ck yourself.

[trader4]

Thank you. That's exactly how I saw it. Apparently in krw's simple mind, he agrees that the correct way to figure out painting costs is to take the area of a wall, then subtract the area of the 7 windows and

2 doors. Then multiply the small area left by the cheapest per square foot painting cost, like a builder would pay to have wide open walls sprayed white, with no flooring, etc in to even worry about. Then say it costs very little, because there is little wall area left. Those windows and doors add $$$ because of all the cutting in that's involved. If it was just an open wall, you could roll it in minutes and the cost of labor exceeds the cost of the paint saved. That's how you lowball $600 or $1100 for a job that should be several times that. How many trips for example does it take to do this job because stuff has to be done in sequence:

Re-tape drywall, 3 coats of mud Apply stainkiller Two coats of paint

krw as usual is an obnoxious fool

[krw]

Bite me, you free-loader. You're the reason *YOUR* insurance is high.

[dadiOH]

I think so too. I have a similarly sized space but not as high...one long side is 8', the other 12', end walls slope. Many windows too but more like

25-35%. It needs some retaping, texturing and painting. As soon as I do a bit of construction it will be done; price my guy gave me is $600.

BTW, in the part I snipped you mentioned the need to cut in around can lights; some reason the trim rings can't be removed?