Deaf mute father shot dead by police while trying to communicate with them

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On 8/28/2016 2:49 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

All the information thus far says:
- the deaf man had no gun - his crime was speeding - the deaf man got out of the car and tried signing to communicate - the cop shot him when he started signing after he got out of the car
Every story I've read that has reported the known details of what happened had the same information.
I'd like to know why speeding is due cause to kill someone.
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Maggie

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On 8/28/2016 4:00 PM, Muggles wrote:

You know damned well it was not a shooting for speeding, you just want to be an obtuse asshole.
You may be 100% right, but we don't know if there are other circumstances not yet public. "Information thus far." There may be more.
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On 8/28/2016 3:21 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The crime the deaf man committed was "speeding". That's why the cops went after him to begin with. So, in essence, the cops deemed lethal force as a justifiable response for speeding.
The man had STOPPED - PARKED, and exited his car in front of his own house, at which point he tried to communicate using sign language. He was then SHOT because he was moving his arms in BROAD daylight. He had no weapon.
Their ONLY reason for stopping him was he was speeding. They should have given him a ticket- not shot and killed him.

... Do tell, what makes me such a thing? Is it because I have an opinion, or is it because I disagree with you, or is it because I know how to argue my viewpoint an VERY WELL, or is it because you just want me to shut up because you don't like my point of view?
I don't apologize for having an opinion, and don't back down just because someone else doesn't like my opinion, and I'm well capable of arguing my viewpoint when I have one that I want to express.

--
Maggie

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On 8/28/2016 6:25 PM, Muggles wrote:

ROFLMFAO! Thanks for proving you are a delusional idiot. ROFLMFAO!
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On 28/08/2016 23:55, Meanie wrote:

Hmm...and you appear very childish with all of your insults, as do a few others here.
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That's because they're American. Think of them as being 10 years old, then you'll understand how to communicate with them.
--
I came real close to seeing Elvis, then my shovel broke.

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On 8/28/2016 6:25 PM, Muggles wrote:

You are entitled to a point of view, but most people base opinions on facts. All the facts are not known yet but yet you draw a conclusion.
If the facts bear you out, I will agree with you that the policeman should be severely punished. You just refuse to wait for the true facts.
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On 8/28/2016 7:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Gee, thanks for acknowledging I'm entitled to my opinion. Should I be thankful??

Once again...
fact: the cops wanted to give him a speeding ticket so they followed him for about 8 minutes until he stopped in front of his house
fact: a deaf mute was shot by police as he was trying to sign to them.
fact: the deaf mute man is dead because the cops wanted to give him a speeding ticket
Something here doesn't add up - isn't right.
Let me guess what that might be? hmmmm The deaf mute should have gotten a speeding ticket - NOT a bullet.
One more time ... why did the cops KILL a man for speeding?? Why did the cops KILL a man for waving his arms while he was using sign language?? What is wrong with this scenario?

He should be punished? How? Should he be disciplined? A month suspension without pay? Six months suspension without pay?? Should he be charged with manslaughter? Fired? How should he be punished??
He gets to live out his life. How does me make up for his "mistake"?? hmm?
--
Maggie

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On 08/29/2016 12:35 AM, Muggles wrote:

1. I'm 99.999% certain that the officer(s) have not slept well since this incident.
2. If the officer had known at the time he was dealing with a (mentally-impaired?) deaf mute, he probably would not have fired his weapon.
3. I'm also 99.999% that if the (mentally-impaired?) deaf mute had stayed in his car and kept his hands on the steering wheel, he'd be alive today.
4. Maybe the (mentally-impaired?) deaf mute should have had a sign on his dashboard indicating his inability to hear speak and possibly think clearly?
5. And maybe if a person is unable to hear, speak and think clearly they should *not* be operating a motor vehicle?
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There's video I saw on national news of a black counselor lying face down in the street with his hands held high above his back in Miami trying to explain his patient nearby had a toy rocket, not a gun. He got shot ANYWAY!
I think a lot of blacks see videos like that and come to believe that there may be nothing they can do to protect themselves from a rogue cop.
Body cams, cell phone cams and CCTV systems in most major establishments have really come to realign reality. The counselor's shooting was the first I had seen where the shooting victim had nothing to do with any evil or disobedient act. But I'll bet it wasn't the first that ever occurred, nor will it be the last.
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Bobby G.

PS: If I was afraid something bad would happen if I stopped, I might try for
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says...

I'm pretty sure it was a toy "truck", not a rocket.
--
RonNNN

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RonNNN formulated on Monday :

Yes, and as I recall reading, the cops didn't know it was not a gun as had been reported, until later. The cop tried to shoot the assumed armed perpetrator and missed, hitting the counselor instead.
This is just another fact devoid argument about right and wrong.
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On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 4:54:30 AM UTC-4, Lars wrote:

+1 to all that. I keep saying that if you create a toxic, volatile situation that ends badly, you bear some of the responsibility, regardless of the mistakes anyone else makes. The perp initially created the toxic environment by not pulling over for a routine speeding incident. He committed a crime, possibly a felony, by eluding police. The perp had 7 miles to think about what he was doing. How long did the officer have to think about what he was doing? The officer may have thought he saw him reaching for a gun, for example. You have a toxic, chaotic situation, with maybe a second to react.
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On 8/29/2016 3:54 AM, Lars wrote:

I hope a lot of officers are having problems sleeping over this. Perhaps it's a wake-up call.

Don't you think he should have engaged his BRAIN and find out why the man was waving his arms before he shot the man?

Citizens are not trained to respond to police. OTOH, police ARE trained to respond to citizens in all sorts of scenarios. The buck stops with the cops.

That appears to be something that'll be necessary since cops aren't smart enough to recognize sign language.

Why not? First, it's legal to drive with a drivers license, so there isn't any law that prohibits driving with a hearing or speech disability. Second, there are many people who aren't disabled who would fit the can't "think clearly when they're driving" description. How do you propose to weed out those people?
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On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 11:35:08 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:

Wrong. At that point they were persuing him for eluding police, which can be a felony. As usual, you lie and pretend it's just a speeding offense. Just like you lie about the Austin incident where the assholes who could have had at most a warning or ticket for jaywalking wound up arrested for RESISTING ARREST. We all saw it on video. Yet you lie and pretend that those perps were arrested only for "jaywalking".

I agree. The perp should have pulled over for the ticket, that's where the toxic environment started.

I agree. The perp should have pulled over for the ticket, that's where the toxic environment started.

They didn't as usual, the village idiot rides again!

You'll probably find out that the cop perceived an imminent, deadly threat, maybe he thought he saw a gun, for example. But you can't wait to even hear what he has to say. BTW, how long did the cop have in that situation to react, if for example he thought he saw the perp reaching into his waistband for a gun? Less than a second? How long did the perp have to think about the toxic situation he was creating, the law he was breaking? 7 miles of driving.

That would all depend on the facts that none of us know yet. Which is why we aren't jumping to conclusions, but you are.

So, what's your version of lynch mob justice, without regard to the facts?
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On 8/29/2016 8:41 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Wrong. The man was NOT eluding, anyone. He was driving home and stopped when he got there.
You do realize what eluding means? "evade or escape from (a danger, enemy, or pursuer), typically in a skillful or cunning way."
The deaf man went home - he wasn't trying to escape.
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On 8/29/2016 11:23 AM, Muggles wrote:

How was the cop to know where he lived? He did not stop for miles. That is eluding.
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 19:18:11 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Police are also trained to be wary about people who bring them somewhere. It may be an ambush set up by phone to a confederate.
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On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 7:18:19 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If the car was registered to him, the cop might have known. Whether he had time to check, did he check during the pursuit, IDK. I saw somewhere online that there was damage to both the police car and the perps car. That explains one of the neighbors saying that the cop car came in smoking. Sounds like there could be a lot more to this story. Like you, I have no need to rush to judgment.
I though of another angle on this. When I first heard of this, I thought the cops probably should have kept a distance from the guy once the chase ended at his house. Take cover behind a car, proceed more cautiously. But IDK what if any standard procedure they have for this and/or what the cops were thinking. The cop might have been worried that the perp was going to go into the house and then they'd have a more difficult situation, involving other people, the guy barricading himself, refusing to come out, endangering other people in the house. Who knows. Imagine the cops gave him lots of room, he goes in the house, and then something bad happens. Then Muggles would be here Monday quarterbacking that, saying how stupid the police were because they could have gone right after him aggressively when they had the chance.
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On 8/29/2016 6:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Eluding is an effort to escape in a skillful or cunning way. The deaf man didn't do that. He drove home, parked his car, and then got out of it. That doesn't come across as him attempting to elude the cops.
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