Cutting sump pump hole in concrete floor.

I need to cut a hole in a basement concrete floor in a house that I own so I can put in a sump pump.
I know how to do all of the sump pump stuff, but I'm not sure if there are any tricks to cutting the hole in the concrete. The concrete seems *very* hard (it sort seems like it's a finer texture and much harder to chip at or break than most concrete). I have tried drilling into this concrete in the past with a concrete drill bit and it seemed to go nowhere.
The main thing I want to avoid is creating a crack in the concrete while chipping or cutting out the opening. So, I'm wondering if I could buy some kind of one-time-use circular saw blade and cut grooves around the perimeter of the hole where the concrete would break/crack instead of the breaks/cracks extending outward past the opening.
I know this is somewhat vague, but any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas would certainly be appreciated.
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BETA-2K wrote:

If you use a saw dry, you will have a house full of dust.
Rent a hammer drill instead and swiss-cheese the perimeter, then break out.
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Thanks. That might be an option. I'll check it out when I am at the rental placing checking out the other idea (about renting "a concrete hole saws like those use for installing below-grade safes".).
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BETA-2K wrote:

You can rent concrete hole saws like those use for installing below-grade safes.
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I didn't knew there was such a thing. I'll check it out.
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:12:17 -0400, "BETA-2K"

'Tis an alligator with which I wrestled some years ago ...

Hammer drill with a nice, fresh percussion bit?

This was my greatest fear. I had a vision of a hideous crack running the length of the basement ...

This is very close to what I did. I think I had to buy 2 7.25" concrete blades from Home Depot. Spec'd it out -very- carefully, cut out a square with my minimum duty circular saw, maybe 1.25" deep. Then I banged and banged with a big hammer/maul until it fell out. Almost -perfectly- clean, no sizable cracks, tiny chip or 2. I was much relieved.

They've got better concrete cutting tools than what I used at the rental places. Dunno how hard they are to handle. Likely helps if you're built like Dick Dee Bruiser (I am 140 lbs with bad back).
The guy that warned about the dust wasn't kidding. It's not just hideous and insideous: I think it gets in your pipes, it forms a compound like lye, can do much harm if ya don't have proper breathing protection. Cleanup is a certified PITA.
Also, I'm told that you can find most anything (i.e. rerod) in the floor. Mine was just 2-2.5" of concrete, but I can't speak for yours.
Not clear? Ask Q's.
Cheers, Puddin'
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old.
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Thanks. That really helps. I didn't think about the possibility of wire mesh or rebar being in the concrete. I'm hoping to try this later this week and I'll post how it worked out.
wrote:

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:22:01 -0400, "BETA-2K"

WAIT!!!!!! :-)
I neglected to mention, you have to (repeat HAVE TO) have a solid understanding of what's under the floor before you can choose the spot for the sump pit.
My first choice was close to my drain stack. Didn't take long to figger that I'd run into the drain line to the street after I'd dug a foot or 2.
Do you know where the drains are located? What else might be in/under the basement floor and where might it be located?
Don't neglect to plan for the concrete dust. A water feed'll help, but it's still a big mess.
P

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old.
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Yes.
Nothing else. I know where the water, gas, and electric lines are -- all above the floor line.

Anything I ever do seems to involve a big mess, so I'm not expecting this to be any exception.
Thanks again.
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BETA-2K wrote:

Others have given good advice. My project was the same as yours. I didn't try to make the hole neat, just rented a rotohammer, drilled lots of holes (it doesn't take long), then beat the piss out of it with a sledge. That also didn't take long. Not much of a mess either. I wasn't concerned about 'neat' as I needed to chisel a trench along two sides of the basement to channel water to the sump (no way to put drain lines outside due to patios, etc. Now that project was fun, hours and hours during a winter of using a single jack and getting sore fingers picking broken concrete out of the trench.
Harry K
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a couple thoughts....
if you live where it freezes put pump in a heated space so the line from pump to discharge doesnt freeze, remember the pump will have a check valve.
its important to consider where your discharging the water. IF YOUR HOME IS ABOVE GROUND LEVEL THINK ABOUT FORGETTING THE PUMP you may be better off draing the underfloor water away from the building.
do realize a sump pump is only works when the power is on.
i had a basement flood because of storm Ivan, it doid lots of damage right when I was trying to sell the house.
I should of drained the water to the front of home well away from foundation
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I have now installed 5 sump pumps in three different houses over the pasts 30 years. Not one of them had an internal check valve. I had to install an in-line one for each. Of those 5, 3 were pedestal types and 2 the immersion types.
Harry K
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You can get pumps driven by water pressure (from the potable supply line). You water bill may be high, but you won't have a water-damage repair bill.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Ooops. Hit 'send' too soon. Your point about protecting the line from freezing is very good. Only the line needs protecting though as the pump won't freeze in a normal basement. Of course there are always exceptions and in really severe climates, the pump itself might need protecting.
Harry K
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The lines from our sumps are well above the frost line. Even more so, in most sumps, the outlet is exposed directly to the weather (which occasionally drops below -40F here).
The real key here is to ensure that you have a continuous downwards slope in the line, so the portions of the line exposed to freezing temperatures will self-drain.
And by avoiding the placement of the outlet in a puddle ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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One last recommend.
Choose your sump basin, buy it, take down the basement before you do measurements.
Plan -everything- well before the first cut. Write specs down. Review the next day.
You know the old saw: measure twice, cut once. I'd measur 3-4 times. :-)
Good Luck, Puddin'
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:34:29 -0400, "BETA-2K"

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old.
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