crimp connections for 110v wiring

Well this came up when I looked at a job in a high rise condo. There were many badly damaged outlets and upon inspection it was clear that there had been a lot of overheated connections. Even some burning. The building was from the 70's and the wiring was all aluminum. I have had bad experience with aluminum badly installed. One power distribution room I was in had so much arcing in it you really didn't need to have the lights on. Anyway it's on Sam's here:

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initially here:
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tool required is AMP PART NO. 933150-1. They will only sell to licensed electricians who have completed their (AMP's) training program. Cost of training, $2000 and actually the tool cannot be purchased only leased. Cost of a 3 month lease, $700-$800 dollars. I presented this to my client with the option of replacing everything with copper and he hired someone else and they used wirenuts. In talking to a longtime employee of the building he said "Yah there have been a lot of electrical fires in the building." Richard

Reply to
spudnuty
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The tool required is AMP PART NO. 933150-1. They will only sell to

I wonder what it cost them to take care of the building inspector, either financially, or with a bag of cement.

Reply to
Doug Kanter

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The tool required is AMP PART NO. 933150-1. They will only sell to

Thanks for the information on cost of the crimp tool - I read complaints but I didn't think it was THAT expensive.

In addition to cold creep in the wiring FAQ (which was substantially fixed with new alloy wire and CO/ALR devices) another major problem is aluminum oxide which forms rapidly on clean aluminum and is an insulator.

The Consumer Product Safety Council had extensive research done on aluminum connections. The professional engineer involved in the research wrote a paper based on the research - at

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paper gives a wide range of fixes from the crimp tool you talk about to wire nuts and others. There is a detailed procedure for using wirenuts which includes applying antioxide paste and then abrading the surface to remove oxides. The author does not think wirenuts are an improvement without the procedure. There is, as far as I know, only one wirenut UL listed for aluminum wire (from Ideal) - the author specifically does not like it.

--------------------------- Do garden variety crimps, like panduit, work reliably on #14 and lagrer wire?

bud--

Reply to
Bud--

regarding the question about automated dimmers. I am using (mfgr) Lightolier (model) MultiSetPro dimmers, switches, and controllers. The system is, IMO, fairly clever. The wiring connections, however, are very complex.

Each switch and dimmer has 5 connections: hot, neut, gnd, switched hot, and data buss. Each controller (and there *can* be something like 30, if you want.... I have 2) has 3 connections: hot, neut, and data buss.

Each switch and dimmer can be operated manually just like a regular switch/dimmer. In this case, you are manually overriding the system. The controller has 5 "scenes". Each scene can be any combination of dimmer/switches, and any individual dimmer brightness setting. To program, press a scene code (for example "A"), set up your room the way you want it, then press a set button on each dimmer or switch. The dimmer or switch remembers how it is suppposed to act under program code A. Same for B, C, D. 5th scene is all units "on".

The buss connection is low voltage, low current, so you can use a single strand of insulated wire and snake it to retrofit. In my case, I had the sheetrock off, so I ran

14/3 romex and used the 3rd wire for the buss connection.

Once you program things, it remembers, even if you cut the mains, so there is some ePROM kind of thing in each unit. There is also a wireless remote, if you are *really* bored.

In my case, I have under-cabinet fluorescents, halogen task lighting, and halogen wall-washer accent lighting for each kitchen counter, plus halogens around the dinner table. I have different programs for working at the counter, sitting at the table, mininal lighting, and "ambience" illumination of the cabinets I built myself. Since I have 2 controllers, one at each kitchen entrance, I can call each program from either entrance. It is definitely excessive in terms of kitchen lighting, but I wanted to fool around with lighting as a design element. Even if you don't groove on "scenes", it is very nice to be walking out of the kitchen and hit the "OFF" button to kill all the lights in the kitchen, independent of what is actually on.

It all works. My only beef is that each box is a rat's nest, a real wiring nightmare. I wanted to try and clean things up a bit, and was pondering the idea of crimping the connections. Hence the original post.

I actually think I'll get a good crimping tool and try some crimps, but *NOT* in the kitchen. Instead, I'll just pick a simple place and try one.

The thread has had lots of good info and opinions. Again, thanks to everybody who weighed in.

Bill

Reply to
Mr_bill

I'm curious what the NEC's restrictions are (if any) on mixing line voltage and low voltage wiring in a single box, as these apparently call for.

Reply to
CJT

I'm curious what the NEC's restrictions are (if any) on mixing line voltage and low voltage wiring in a single box, as these apparently call for.

Probably NO NO NO. unless its a dedicated device that uses both as part of its operation.

Your NOT ALLOWED to run say a doorbell wire even close to a powerline wire because of the shockhazard if they should somehow accidently cross connect.

Reply to
hallerb

Yes. But as was mentioned before, they will not work with garden variety crimp tools. This doesn't mean to have to spend a fortune - just get one that's more than two flat or almost-flat jaws that do nothing but flatten the sleeve. They need to have a groove into which the sleeve fits snugly - that keeps the crimp from moving sideways. Some tools have several grooves to fit different size crimps. Fancier tools use different dies that you install based on the work you're doing. This is probably overkill for household work because you're likely to be working with at least two wire sizes - 12 and 14, so you'll want to be able to switch quickly.

On the opposite jaw, there'll be a tooth which creates a deep dimple in the metal sleeve. The sleeves have a split on one side - a seam, actually. The whole system works best when the dimple is made at a point that's 180 degrees opposite that seam. This is one reason why the translucent connectors are better - it's easier to see the seam, so you can work more quickly.

If you stay tuned, I'll post some pictures over the weekend, showing the tool, and properly made connections.

Reply to
Doug Kanter

Dont crimp solid wire.

I dont care if someone says it is right or ok... crimp on wire terminals just dont hold up well on solid wire.

Ive been working with electrical machinery all my life and while some will say that its the tool or the person doin the crimping it still isnt right.

even the 4 way crimpers will loosen up over time...all electrical connections do.

If you want a round connector on the end of a solid wire get you a pair of round nose pliers and form your own connection. I can make a round "terminal end" on any wire that is far superior to any crimp on connector...cause there is no joint.

Make the "hole" a tad bigger than the thread portion of the screw so it doesnt twist when you tighten the screw, its the best electrical connection you can get.

Reply to
cornytheclown

In an environment where vibration is an issue, screws will loosen over time, just as you say crimps will.

Reply to
Doug Kanter

Yea - I can see the benefits of crimps if they will take up less room in the jbox. Downside is that this is a fairly complicated setup. Crimps are permanent, if you use them you better make sure you do it correct the first time. Also, please label and diagram everything and save the manuals. One of us may someday be living in your house and by having this well documented will save us the headaches if something goes wrong.

Also, may I suggest - get a couple of spare switches and a spare controller and a spare anything that is proprietary. This sort of technology seems to change pretty quickly. 5 or 10 years from now when a wall switch fails you will have a hell of a time finding a replacement if I were to bet. And one will fail someday.

Anyway - your setup sounds nice. I am going to research this solution for myself as well.

Reply to
No

yes...I believe I stated in my post that "all" electrical connections will loosen over time. But the simple fact is that a crimped connection will last longer over stranded wire....they just dont grip that well on solid wire.

Ive worked with electricity for 25 years....Ive seen them all fail..wirenuts, crimps, screw terminals......they all loosen over time...but the fact remains that with solid wire a screw terminal will hold up longer..and its easier to maintain......

of course this all depends on the competance of the person doing the work ....... I see wire connections everyday where someone didnt get the wire into the connector far enough or something "just went wrong" and the person doing the work either didnt care or didnt know...

Reply to
cornytheclown

I have a interesting one. A switch at the edge of its ratings. It frequently fries out:(

It uses screw terminals with round crimp connectors screwed on.

out of the connectors once I wrapped the wires directly around the terminals.

boy was I surprised the switches last twice as long. apparently the dis similiar metals, brass screw terminals, copper wire, and different metal terminals cause heating and ultimate failure

Reply to
hallerb

Funny you should mention this. I had thought seriously about this myself, and may do it, BUT... Each switch or dimmer or controller is roughly $100 ea.

You have to weigh having $300 in unused spares vs the odds of getting into a thorny problem down the road. My guess is that there will be something around. Maybe have to replace all units together, but something that will be able to use the current wiring.

Reply to
Mr_bill

replying to No, Trent wrote: Say perhaps you get stranded wire cheap or for free perhaps. Stranded wire does not work well when you loop it around your terminals on outlets. Yes you can buy high quality outlets but crimp fittings are really reliable and cheap.

Reply to
Trent

But not to code. Use the correct receptacles for the type of wire.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Stranded THHN/THWN is a listed wire type for most binding terminal devices. (receptacles and switches) The workmanship requirement may be a stretch for some unqualified installers.

Reply to
gfretwell

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