Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

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wrote:

Jesus Christ, how cheap can you be? Go buy a pack of 50 red wirenuts and 25 yellow ones, shove them in the guys face and tell him to use them. You spent about $6 and saved your home and/or life. Also, when it comes to adding an outlet or something later on, it will save the next electrician 20 minutes of time to scrape the tape off.
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Not only that, but is this the last electrician in town or something? Cripes...hire someone with a brain.
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...and save you the $25 the next electrician would charge for that 20 minutes.
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billder99 wrote:

It does, however, forbid splices that do not have an additional mechanical fastening other than the twisting of the wires. At least, that's my reading of it...
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Quite true, it does. But also, per Code, the local inspection authority has the final say. In this case, it appears that local inspection authority said OK. Probably shouldn't have...
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

I think the OP came here looking for approval for something that already happened, like there was no turning back.
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A lot of people do that. They usually leave disappointed. :-)
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On 07/30/07 04:29 pm Doug Miller wrote:

I am the OP. I came, not looking for approval of/for something that had already happened but expressing amazement that what I found -- black hots and red hots (thus with 220/240 volts between them), with crimped connections and a few layers of insulation tape -- could ever have been kosher.
I have remade the connections using wirenuts -- as I intended to do all along.
Perce
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Just for the record -- if they've been properly crimped and taped, that *does* meet Code.

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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

I agree.
The thread took a different turn with a related question from bilder99. There is no indication in his posts that mechanical device or solder was used.
bilder99 was not looking for approval of what was happening. He thought what was happening wrong and wanted a 'second opinion'.
-- bud--
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snipped-for-privacy@yaho.o.com wrote: <snip>

Some wire nuts are designed specifically for _untwisted_ wires, and if you twist them first you may be _weakening_ the connection.
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Just curious. How do you which are which? I have never seen anything printed on the packages. I have always twisted wires. That's how I was taught many years ago. It's easier not to twist, but twisting seems to make the best connection. As for wirenuts, I dont see how twisting could weaken the connection.... (unless twisted so much a wire breaks).
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On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:31:55 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@card.com wrote:

Ideal and 3M say it is "noit necessary" to twist but they don't say you can't..
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It supposedly says on the package. I've never seen it.
Some wirenuts are apparently designed to do the twist while you turn them on. Saves a little time/fuss for the electrician, which is why they design them that way. It's remotely possible that some wirenuts designed for "no pretwist" may (meaning "probably only rarely") overtwist the wire if you pre-twist it anyway.
It's best to do what the package says, and err on the side of pre-twist if it doesn't say.
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Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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Doug Miller wrote:

Thanks for the web site. It will come in handy.
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Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
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on 7/20/2007 2:47 PM Percival P. Cassidy said the following:

I would avoid crimps for just one reason. What if you had to replace an outlet, light fixture, or switch that went bad, or wanted to upgrade to the latest and greatest fixtures or switches? Would you rather just unscrew a wirenut, or try to get the crimp off with a pair of pliers?
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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With many people, (especially with those who live in countries where they are banned), there seems to be some sort of bias against the use of wire nuts, even though they are a perfectly acceptable and an NEC legally approved method of making splices. When done properly, by twisting the wires together with a pliers and applying the wire nut with a proper tightness, there is little chance the wire nut will come off or that the splice will become a high-resistance hot spot.
Wire nuts offer the advantages of simplicity, economy, speed, and the flexibility to make future changes without destroying the connecter.
Open up enough outlet boxes where the splices have been taped after 5, 10, or 20 years and you will, more likely than not, find examples where the tape has dried up or even fallen off the splices it was intended to cover.
Beachcomber
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On 07/21/07 12:38 pm Beachcomber wrote:

I must admit to having been horrified the first time I saw a wirenutted connection. Looked like some real Rube Goldberg affair. What I was used to seeing for electrical connections was a box made of insulating material, with firmly attached brass "busbars" with wires inserted into the holes and held secure by clamping screws.

I have read that the wires must *not* be twisted together first. In fact I just read a claim that UL approval of wirenuts depends on them making a secure connection without pretwisting the conductors.

The ones I just encountered were likely original (30 years) and the tape was tight.
Perce
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On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:21:52 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

Is your first sentence in your paragraph above a conclusion you reached from your second sentence, or was it a separate statement you read?
The seoncd sentence means that the wirenuts must be able to make a secure connection if the wires are not pretwisted. It does not in itself doesn't mean that the wires can't also be pretwisted. Or even that it wouldn't work better if they were pretwitsted.
I only do this stuff once in a while, and sometimes I don't pretwist, I guess usually when I don't have pliers handy, but I feel more confidant of the electrical connection when it is pretwisted. Based on my knowledge of things and materials and touching, I don't know how it could be otherwise.
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Beachcomber wrote:

Wirenuts are properly applied by holding the wires parallel and then twisting the wirenut.

You won't see that if a quality tape such as Scotch 33 or 88 is used. You will see that if you use that stuff commonly found at the big box stores.

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