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Creating a 220 circuit?

According to j j :

Maybe. If the voltage is high enough.

But I betcha that it ain't NM on a blast furnace.

When people speak "type" in this context, they don't mean wire _size_ for heck's sake.

They're meaning "type" in a NEC or CEC sense. Insulation type. Temperature rating. Physical characteristics. Eg: NM vs. NMD, NMW, SJ, SOW, UF, AC, TEC etc.

An in-wall circuit for a plug-connected heater will be the same _type_ as any other in-wall circuitry under the same conditions. Just potentially a different wire size due to ampacity requirements.

On the other hand, if the wire _enters_ a device that produces heat, under most codes it has to be 90C rated.

Reply to
Chris Lewis
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According to Chris Lewis :

Forgot one:

4) It will instantly trip the GFCIs becaused you're not using the neutrals, but GFCIs trip when neutral and hot current are different.
Reply to
Chris Lewis

highest external (plug-in) heater I've seen around here is 1500 watts. I doubt a 4500 watt heater is plug-in.

plug-in heaters work on normal 120V outlets (since most houses only have

240V for the stove, dryer and baseboard heating). a 4500 watt plug in heater would draw 40A.
Reply to
j j

higher gauge wire, so it handles higher, almost constant current?

(keyword is properly sized. do you honestly believe the wire on a household circuit is properly sized for a 4500 watt heater? even if the wires were properly sized for a 20A breaker, they still would have a max of 3800 watts)

a heater draws much more power and more often than a light bulb. When the temp outside hits -20 or -30 celsius, that heater will work many hours in a day. many more amps are going through that wire.

The standard wire for a circuit over here is 14 gauge, 2 wire in a white flat plastic cable. the heating wires are higher gauge, thick and orange. I don't know the exact NMD code for them, I'm not an electrician, but I do know it's not the same wire you'd use in a standard household circuit.

Reply to
j j

220 at the device is a 9% voltage drop. I don't think it is in the code, but I have always heard that wiring should be sized to have no more than a 3% drop. Comments?
Reply to
Wade Lippman

Orange is #10. Nothing special about it; you can buy it anyplace that sells white or yellow. The temperature of the device has no bearing on the cable used to bring electricity to it. At least you admit you don't know what you are talking about, which is better than many people here, but why do you then give advice?

Reply to
Wade Lippman

I didn't give advice. I just said it's most probably not possible to make the 240 from his two 120 outlets and even if it were, he doesn't have the proper wiring for it. even if he has a wire rated for 20 amps, that heater will draw 19 amps and in time the breaker will probably trip.

I also don't believe this is a plug-in heater because household plug-in heaters are 120V not 240. in the original message he calls it a "4500 watt heating element" which makes me believe he's just hacking this thing together from pieces, which makes it even weirder/more dangerous.

basically, it's a high power heater, much higher than the 1500 watt plug-in heaters sold in stores, and I wouldn't plug it in a normal circuit that wasn't designed for heating.

so, what exactly is your problem? you believe my answer should have been "sure, of course you can run your 4500 watt 240V heater by simply connecting it to two separate 120V outlets" ?

Reply to
j j

No...actually,

1-Electric heaters are garbage...unless they are in duct units.. 2- I dont use extension cords like you get at Home Depot...mine are rated at 25A, even the 100 foot ones...heavy mofos for sure..

OMG..this is getting better...have you ever seen the wire used in a small electric heater? Its oversized 9 times out of 10...BUT, its plain old copper strand..not a damn thing fancy about it. Now...have you ever seen an induct heater? say...one thats rated at 20kW? Have you ever noticed how freaking small those wires are? The ONLY special wires in an electric heater, are the ELEMENTS themselves...thats it...nothing fancy at all about the wiring used to feed them, and to say otherwise, is wrong. I just re-strung a 75kW heater..and have a 200kW heater to re-string...funny how when I m done, all new copper wire will be used on the feed wires..and actually, the elements are not all that fancy.. Do you know how the kilowatt ratings are come by, and how the number of turns per inch on the element effects the total? How about the diameter of the twist? How about the diameter of the wire? No sir...nothing at all fancy about the wires...some of the 10kW heaters use a little old 14G wire to cover them from the relays...but....you knew that...right??

Now..its time to figure out what in hell you are talking about, since so far, you are clueless.

Reply to
CBHvac

My problem is ignorant morons giving advice. I would have liked you to not make any posts.

Reply to
Wade Lippman

I dunno... maybe the orange color make it able to carry more current..

Reply to
Daniel L. Belton

I have a plug in heater that uses a special wire in the cord for it, but the reason for this is because it's run inside the case of the heater where it gets hot.

Reply to
Daniel L. Belton

According to j j :

I have two of them.

They're oft-called "construction cube heaters". They're about 10"x10"x12" or so, usually painted orange. They have a fan. You should be able to buy them at Home Depot for well under $100. The one I bought new was $65 CDN - got the other at an auction.

Many companies make them.

Popular on construction sites. Used for example in keeping unheated buildings warm for drywalling. I use them to heat my garage when I'm working in my shop.

Standard 220V 30A 3-prong plug on a 10ga stranded copper appliance cord.

If you ran it at 120V. They're 240V.

Reply to
Chris Lewis

According to Wade Lippman :

That's correct. But you're forgetting something. The panel may already be 5% lower than 240V. Which means that the "wire sizing for no more than

3% drop" from the panel to the outlet will get you close enough to 220V not to matter. In other words, the two "permissible" voltage drops when added together get you to 220V.
Reply to
Chris Lewis

Because he's looking for advice. He said in his original post that he has 2 CIRCUITS. These could very well be circuits.

I've seen a lot of your posts, Wade. Please don't try to come across like you know what the hell yer talkin' about...especially about electricity.

Have a nice week...

Trent

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!

Reply to
Trent©

Hi, Yup, it may well be two oppsite legs. Time consuming but he can trace the wires and confirm this. If it is he is in luck! Tony

Reply to
Tony Hwang

My God you are an idiot. Did you even read the original post? He said he had two 110v circuits and wanted to use them together to give 220.

And that leads you to believe he already has 220v? I don't think he, or anyone else, is looking for advice from you.

You and Doug deserve each other!

Reply to
Wade Lippman

Good Tony; did you read any of the myriad other posts with all the reasons it was impossible regardless whether is "oppsite legs" or not?

Reply to
Wade Lippman

Hi, I was just into first step to see if there is 220V available. Next step is after that, safety, code issue, etc. Tony

Reply to
Tony Hwang

again, what advice did I give? please, enlighten me. all I did was explain why he probably will not be able to get 240V out of the two circuits.

don't like it, don't read it. killfile me or f*ck off.

Reply to
j j

right, but how many houses have 240V outlets around the house ?

Reply to
j j

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