Crawlspace: layer of sand under vapor barrier?

[Axial]

My new-to-me 40-yr-old house in PacNW has a 36-48" high crawlspace that didn't have nearly enough vents and in the warm weather the dank/musty odor comes into the house. I just had existing vents enlarged, 10 more installed, a fan put in, and it's been a huge improvement. Next week I'm having the crawlspace cleaned out, mildewcide/fungicide sprayed everywhere, and a new vapor barrier put down. The extremely clayey soil is dampish looking, but not actually wet.

Would there be any additional benefit to putting in a 1 or 2" layer of sand under the vapor barrier? The downside might be if I ever needed to pump out water the sand might making pumping difficult, I suppose. Any comments?

Sheila

[Tom Baker]

If the soil is clay and damp, the moisture is going to collect on the underside of the vapor barrier. Sannd below the vapor barrier will give it a place to collect.

I would suggest your moisture problem may begin outside the crawl space. Is the ground in t(he area damp/ Does the surface tend to direct run off toward the house? Does the roof shed water close to the foundation?)

Tom Baker

[Axial]

I hope the moisture is just from the crawlspace never having had enough ventilation; my neighbors houses, just 20-30 ft away on either side and the same age, both have very dry crawlspaces. My house has very wide eaves and the soil almost never gets very wet next to the foundations. All run-off is into drains, and the ground is sloped away. It's at the base of a hill, but there are berms with drainage across the hill.

My thought was that sand would, as you suggest, give the moisture somewhere to collect, plus it might be a "vapor pre-barrier" before the plastic. If I have the sand put in and then plastic put down right after the mildewcide etc. is sprayed on, my theory is that maybe there will be less opportunity for musty mildew to grow under the plastic.

Until the crawlspace has had a few months to air out with the new vents, I didn't want to go to the next step of looking at drains in there until I know that the cleanout & new vapor barrier didn't do the trick.

Of course, I haven't the foggiest how I might get the sand in there or spread it ... maybe get a couple of large, low, garden wagons and drag them around with pulley & ropes. Is there some machine that could blow sand instead of bark mulch?

Sheila

[Tom Baker]

Your description of your neighbor's dry crawl space and the layout of your property suggests a dry crawl spce. So,you are probably correct. The moisture is surface moisture and given some time will evaporate.

I'd suggest digging down - say - six inches to see how wet the soil is. If it's dry, give the surface a few days to dry off before you put down the vapor barrier.

In my neighborhood, there are a lot of highschool kids looking to do yard work. They don't seem to mind crawling around in small spaces, but I have to choose the more careful ones.

If it were my crawl space, I'd put down the vapor barrier on the clay and weight it down with some sand. That's what we've been doing for Habitat houses and it appears to work.

Tom Baker

[B]

Sand is messy, and it just masks present and future drainage problems rather than fix them. Why try to invent a new procedure for a well time-tested process of using thick plastic?

-Bruce

[Axial]

Thanks, Anthony, that sounds like a more flexible idea than sand. Unfortunately the crawlspace entrance is at the back of the house so any mechanical delivery would have to go around about 50ft of corners and garages :-(

What depth did you put in, 1 to 2" or ?

Sheila

HerHusband wrote:

[Axial]

Yes, the potential masking possibility is one I'd wondered about. My goal in thinking about sand was just to be proactive in drying up the earth as much as possible under the plastic. My theory is that if sand or gravel would give a little room for air flow, and keep the earth out of direct contact with the plastic, then that might keep any existing moisture from causing new mold under the plastic.

New homeowner goes overkill, maybe , but this musty smell is quite literally "getting up my nose" as my cousins in Canada would say.

Sheila

B wrote:

[Tom Baker]

Anthony, If the vapor barrier is not fastened tight at the edges - we typically turn up the edges along the foundation in crawl spaces - the vapor will tend to migrate through the gravel and out around the edges of the vapor barrier into the crawl space.

Tom Baker

[HerHusband]

I placed pea gravel under the vapor barrier for a few reasons.

1. To provide some drainage for any moisture that does get in the crawlspace.
2. To level out the dips and bumps in the crawlspace.
3. To provide something easier on the knees to crawl around on than the bare hard dirt.
4. To provide a little protection for the plastic (i.e. No sharp sticks, rocks, etc. to poke holes in my vapor barrier).

Anthony

[Axial]

nobody warned me that as a new homeowner I might suffer pangs of "neighbor's crawlspace envy".

I now see why theirs is so dry. Their > Your description of your neighbor's dry crawl space and the layout of

[TweakyNerd]

replying to HerHusband, TweakyNerd wrote: Anthony, after I had crawl space repair and saw that water was pooling under the brand new vapor barrier, I shocked that putting down a layer of pea gravel BEFORE adding the pea gravel was never suggested! I starting researching to find others who did put pea gravel under gravel and was glad to find your comment. Question: how long ago did you add the pea gravel and how well has it held up??

[Ed Pawlowski]

Replying to a 17 year old post may not get you an answer. Maybe you'll get lucky and the OP will check back in on the 20th anniversary of the first message.

[mrbuilder]

replying to Ed Pawlowski, mrbuilder wrote: Its coming up. Just a few more years and we can find out. Looking forward to the anniversary!