I do not touch anyone without first checking the state licensing web site and will not commit to anything orally and will agree to the work only after checking real business references. I got the plans from a designer who then tried to bilk me for a $1k retainer. He's gone but I do have the floor plans.
Many insurance companies will not insure a contractor to work in a condo and some of the ones who were here didn't know that, but I got an idea or two out of them.
Proof of insurance must come to me directly from the contractor's insurance company.
In the beginning I had estimates ranging from $15k for a wet room to $45k for a castle. I ruled the first guy out based on his attitude and the last on his price,
I wised up and went to Tub Cove,
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a place about 20 blocks away that specializes in bathrooms. That estimate was $10k with the work taking about a week.
The Homeowner's Club
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here in Seattle sent a guy who also said $10k. He, too, said about one week. I pay them, not the contractor, and they pay him if I'm satisfied. If I'm not satisfied, they "make me whole." We've used them for a couple of $200 repairs and they've been fine.
An architect for TubCove was here yesterday, looked over the place as I explained what I needed and said it shouldn't cost more than $10k. The Home Owners Club architect will be here Dec 3.
Lowe's, Home Depot and Best Plumbing,
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are the next places I'll visit. They'll mostly have equipment, but HD will have contractors' lists so I can get some more input for free.
This is a difficult project on which to give an absolute opinion and more difficult to give an opinion at at distance. If only the things you note need to be done, a contractor can do that work with your help in setting heights and clearances.
I'm a practicing architect with 40 years experience and I'm not a member of the AIA. These questions come to mind: Will there be adequate space for a wheel chair? Will the door swing cause problems with moving a wheel chair? (Will door handles and latches be accessible?) If things (fixtures, walls, or doors) have to be moved around, find an architect or designer. T
----------- We don't need the door so it will be replaced by a heavy duty thick cloth curtain hung from solid grab bar thick rods.
I'm sizing commode chairs to get the dimension needs nailed down
The only handles and latches that will be left will be on mirrored medicine cabinets that my wife will use.
I have the floor plans from the Planning & Development dept. The condo's building management company didn't have those. I hadn't thought of using the planning and development department as a check on architects' work. Thanks.
The permit website is
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"do I need a permit" answer is number three. You'll have to scroll down to it because the page is a little kerflooky. The guy fro Tub Cove, see prior post, said he read it and it didn't look to him as though I needed a permit.
One can get projects, owners, and contact info from the architects. Building Departments do not usually hand out project info.
General standards are available from a search for ADAAG.
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I'll see what I can get form ADAAG, but I don't need to meet ADA standards. This is not commercial property. Strictly a residence. Resale value is irrelevant.
I think I'll do better with a wall-mounted sink. A pedestal sink will get in the way of my feet.
We're not going move the drain if possible. It's an unnecessary cost and the water will drain quickly enough since I'm not going to have the shower on fort very long and when I'm not hosing myself off, whoever's with me can point the hose to the drain. The water won't back up.
I don't have the arm strength to use hand rails any more and exercise won't strengthen the arms. There is no window in the bedroom. The bathroom is approximately 9' by 6'. There are numbers written down all over the place in here and I will put the exact numbers in a file on this machine in the next day or so.
The left side of the bathroom door is about 4" to the right of the wall. As you look into the bathroom you are looking at a 9' wall.
The current layout is, as you look into the bathroom, from left to right on the 9' wall:
1) the wall-mounted slightly oval sink has a counter on both sides. The left edge of the counter is about 5 " wide and abuts a load-bearing wall that we will not touch. Even if it isn't load-bearing, tearing into it is cost-probitive. I need counter space on the left for my razor tooth brush and so on.
2) Under the sink is a vanity that will be removed so I can wheel underneath the sink.
3) The counter on the right side of the sink is about 7 inches wide. To the right is the toilet. Over the tank is a 5" deep extension of the sink counter top. The counter top is one contiguous piece. We expect that over-the-tank extension to go. I expect that we'll keep the toilet and raise it from the bottom with some material that has a hole in it for the pipe. The floor to seat distance must be 20". ADA takes, pardon the expression, a back seat to me on that one.
4) On the wall behind the sink is a huge mirror which will be replaced with two surface-mounted, mirrored medicine cabinets. Surface-mounted because that's a common wall and the less digging we do the better. Mirrored to make the room brighter.
5) To the right of the toilet is the tub. It's about 33" wide and I'm told it's a standard-sized tub. The tiled wall at the head of the tub, the end furthest from the faucet, goes about three feet down from the ceiling. The tiled wall then extends out toward the faucet end of the tub about 5 inches and then goes straight down to the back of the tub. This puts the back of the tub to the immediate right of the bathroom door.
6) The tile around the tub will be pulled of the wall and a shower pan will be installed. The laminated sides will extend to the ceiling. The Tub Cove guy,
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said the laminate and adhesives will be Wilsonart or something similar. Here's the WilsonArt web site:
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The drain can stay where it is. The faucet handle is now a ball that we turn right or left and push up or down for heat and pressure, respectively. That ball will be replaced with a handle that will be easier to hold and will do the same thing .
7) As I am wheeled in, the chair will be turned and I will be pushed into the shower. The shower pan will have a "lip" on its left side to hold back the water. I'll be pushed over that lip up either a slightly sloped floor or a small moveable ramp. Then I'll be turned around to face the faucet. Brakes locked and a pair of small blocks or something, if need be, can be placed in front of the wheels to further hold the chair in place. I'll hose myself down with the shower nozzle and return it to whoever's with me. That person can then point the spray to the drain and the backup of water will be nil. I lather up, get the hose, rinse, hand the hose back, and then the hose will be turned off. The shower will have, as it does now, a large heavy-duty cloth curtain hanging down to the ground. There shouldn't be much leakage at all given the lip and the process described in this item 7.
8) I will dry off as much as I can and be wheeled into the bedroom. I'll then be moved to the bed, dress, and go to bed or, be plopped into an electric wheelchair until the end of the day.
9) Then I'll post a progress report on these two newsgroups. God, I hate this.
Understood. I am not prying into your personal business there but the design needs some details such as that. I take it that fronting to the toilet will not work and you need side-by-side sort of rails.
You will need at least 36 inches clear on whichever side of the toilet works best for you and your arm cabability. Not knowing your details of strength, I can hazard a guess from here that you use a chair which works with a 36 inch clearance and is probably a smaller size than that. Can you tell me how many inches wide your chair is? Not just the seat, but widest part at the wheels. Note: not electric chairs I know of will last in a shower. A spare cheaper 'slip on' sorta like changing your shoes will work better for this shower portion. ;-)
Can I presume 'bedroom' here was a typo with automatic software core4cting it and wrong word used to replace it?
Approximations are ok here for our use. Details to the inch are for the contractors you select.
Ok, so it's wider than was previously assumed and the door is at a wall that is about 9 feet across then you have a 6 foot depth as you roll from the door to the opposite wall? Entry door is at one extreme end of the room at
4 inches from the wall which rolling forward would be about 6 feet before you stub your toes on the next wall ahead of you?
Ok, so you roll in, and are at the right side of the room. Stop at the doorway and see this before you:
This is too your left. You'd roll left away from the door to get there.
Yes, do this. Since you also want a bit of counterspace, look at wall mount sinks or ones with legs that are 36 inches apart so you can roll between them. This will need to be thinline so it is mostly not sticking out much. One with legs (just 2 front ones) spaced far enough apart for the wheelchair to roll under it, might work best for you. This will be sturdy incase you want to lean on it a bit. The hight of the sink will be what suits you best in the wheelchair. Totally adaptable. Less cost to install if that spot doesnt hit studs just right to hold a wall mount unit.
Ok, so the sink is next to the toilet and you'd roll left to get to either? The sink is almost conjoined to the toilet. You need 36 inches at least on the other side of the toilet away from the sink. At this stage, we may have run out of room? That wall is only 6ft long. Toilet (about 20 inches) plus
36 beside it, leave no room for sink on same wall. Hehehe got you on the height. You do not have to install ADA level at home if it doesnt suit. One thing you *may* want to add later is the tank top simple sink. No special plumming required and might sometimes come in handy. Make sure the put the faucet on the correct side so it's out of your way and you an reach the water easy.
Ok.
This is now the back wall from the door straight across from it? The directions have me confused but am trying to help. It may be opposite the sink and toilet which means you have a narrow depth now. If it's on the far wall from the door which you seem to say is 9ft, it has lots of room.
If I misunderstood the design, please help me out with it. You panned left to right but didnt mention when you changed walls.
You could relocate the sink fairly cheaply to be alongside the 9ft wall with the roll in shower if I have the design right. Gnerically, you can relocate water supply lines without too much expense, but the drains may not be as easy.
BTW, this one is easy. Cut a strip off a rubber bathmat with those sucker things on the bottom, about 2 suckers and fix it to the floor at the point you dont want to roll past. Can be cleaned pretty easy or just replaced with another strip.
Oh my own experience? Spent much of 3 years as a kid in a wheelchair due to a foot injury and a hellion so they had to strap my little ass in a wheelchair to let the multple food surgerys heal. (Mom had to call 911 once to have the firemen figure out how to get me out of a tree I climbed, wheelchair and all). Worked as a volunteer for several years assisting folks with ADA law and how to adapt places including help building accomodations vice just talking about them.
Your space *is* minimal for perfection but 9x6 foot can be worked alot easier than 5x10.
I'll be using a commode chair, strictly manual, in the shower.
Yep, typo.
No, I'm on the left side of the room as I roll in forward and have made no turns. I'm sitting in the doorway facing straight ahead & looking at a wall that is approximately 9 ft wide. If I move straight ahead, without turning, I will bump into the sink. Once the vanity is gone, my knees will fit under the sink & I should be OK.
Here's a drawing
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I would have put it up sooner, but couldn't get the code to work until just now. This page should show the layout.
While alone, I'll be in a small electric chair and will be able to use only the sink. When my wife or an aide is here that person will help me to and from the pot. For showers I will be placed in a manual commode chair and pushed into the tub so that I will be facing the faucet. I'll shower, dry off, and be pushed or pulled back into the bedroom. Then I'll get onto the bed, finish dressing and whatever.. sleep or get up.
I'm going to wheelchair and medical supply stores next week to get the dimensions of the available equipment. I can also get some equipment from the Muscular Dystrophy Association even though I don't have MD.
No. To get to the sink as I enter the room I will not have to make any turns. The sink is straight ahead. See the drawing.
"Info" snipped-for-privacy@nwfirst.com wrote "cshenk" snipped-for-privacy@cox.net wrote
Cool, the picture helped a great deal. Please bear with my slow replies. I work really wierd hours.
Thank you for recognizing that. Each piece I've asked is specific to a need. Cant give advice on how to fix it without that. Its the same stuff any contractor will need to know. They however have the advantage of seeing you and may not have needed to ask some aspects. I have only what you type.
Next question, based on the pics, can you tell me if you have at least 42 inches from the toilet edge and the sink pipes? This makes the work cheaper. The sink houever is the least expensive item to 'seege over' towards the wall by just shifting the pipes a little. Moving the toilet or the shower drain cost alot. This is due to the piping and traps used.
If your picture is 'somewhat to scale' it looks like you have a large vanity with an extension across the toilet tank.
This is the best design possible for what you need. Probably the easiest one to work with.
;-) Understood. Can you manage side access to the toilet on your own? I know you have little arm strongness which will not improve. Designed right, if you have an electric chair that stands up and have some limited leg use enough to stand and rails to use, you might be able to get on the toilet unassisted. Getting back off though might not be so very easy. Your comment on 'push/pulled' to the bedroom makes this unlikely but worth asking.
Forgive if i am wrong, but this I think involves the chair raising you, and a front access and rails on both sides of the toilet and the ability to 'turn around' then lower down. If not able to raise back up and turn around, useless to you information. Side shuffle (no rail at entrance side) is easier on a caretaker regardless of lifting chair or not.
Useful folks. Lots of information.
The only thing you need, is a wall mount sink with enough 'lip' to set your various things on and may want to move the sink as far over to the corner as possible. Very simple PVC or other piping can be used to move it over without changing where the pipes come out from the wall now. This will create the space it seems you lack beside the toilet to make for easier use of the toilet.
If you want to be able to 'lean on the sink' then you need the type that has just spindle legs under the front and spaced wide enough apart to accomodate rolling under it between them. Otherwise, it will come down as not strong enough. This does not however have to be 'deep'. It can easily be built to be 18 inches with a smaller sink set in it and a 42 inch spread between the legs. At that stage though you hit competing requirements of side toilet access, and sink legs.
If leaning on the sink isnt essential to you, wall mount a simple shelf for your 'stuff' along that wall used for clearance to the toilet and keep to a thinline sink (12 inch or less wall mount with no visible support and no legs for you to mess with). At 12 inches, you should be able to reach over and grab stuff off a shelf ok since you'd be pretty much just reaching not even quite past your knees? Acceptable enough?
A Japan thing to me but seen stateside in some places. It fits over the toilet tank top (replacing it really) and is a small sink. I think with this later info, not at all useful to you. The inlet of fresh drinkable water runs to it then down into the tank to refill it. Some just turn on when you flush the toilet, and drain down, others have a separate valve you turn on to use (even hot and cold) and drain to the flushing tank. Because it would be sitting behind you when on the toilet, not useful to you.
If you want the space "designed" call an Architect or an Interior Designer. The fees can not be based on sq. ft. in smaller spaces as they are harder to design or work out. Can't charge enough really. If you want a face life call a remodeler and you will get a normal rational result. Call an Interior Designer and you will get best of both worlds. Any one you choose should be well versed in renovation and/or existing structures; a total different bear then new construction. Also, some bath renovation/remodel are a few thousand to do the whole project and others like in my neck of the woods are more the sky the limit! Bathroom showrooms may have a designer on staff and will charge less for the design work and roll the design fees into the overall project/construction and material purchased.
I'm from NJ and fees are anywhere from 8% to 12% of new construction plus admin. and expenses. Or $800 to $1,200 plus say for a 6 x 8 foot or 8 by 10 foot with linen closet. If you are selecting standard "Home Depot" materials in a hall bathroom you will be at the lower end of the slide, but if you are top of the line for a master bath, this requires a lot more thought and design so you will be at the higher end.
Remember each case is different, so ask what the fees are based on.
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