Cost of HVAC system

The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners - just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.
First, there should be a breakdown because there is no reason to pay sales tax on labor.
Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC system?
Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to remove an existing system and install a new system presuming it's an outside/inside system?
Dick
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On Jun 24, 1:47�am, snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:

best to get multiple quotes and ask your neighbors, with similiar size homes what they paid
were getting a new furnace with air this friday, $4350 bucks installed, from a reputable company that has done 2 of my realtives homes
2.5 ton 13 SEER A/C 70,000 BTU furnace.
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Price depends on where you live also. For example, labor costs in the south are usually a lot less than in the northeast.
I just had a 3 ton, 14 SEER, 410A freon, w/80k furnace installed by the best rated company in town for $4250. They removed the old unit, installed the new one, and were gone in 5 hours.
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Dick Adams wrote:

Here in Texas you only pay tax on labor when the job is for a commercial job. Who ever gave you a quote should be able to tell you what you need to know.

If the company can not tell you what you what to know, get another company or asked the owner of the company for answers. They do not want to lose a sales call because the salesman does not know the answers.

Most jobs will take 2 days. First day they remove the existing system and start putting in the new system then the second day they finish up.

--
Moe Jones
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Did mine in about 5 hours Box trucked dropped off the comp and AH 2 techs showed up 30 min later AH was a direct fit, so others may take longer
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Also in most areas they need a permit and they need to size stuff correctly.

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On Jun 24, 12:47am, snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:

Most important is total bill and a quality installer. If any insulation has been done or will be done, or being the old unit could be oversized a heat load calculation is very important, get a permit and have it inspected before you pay, inspectors do find contractors making shortcuts.
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On Jun 24, 1:47 am, snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:

I'm going through the same thing. I filled out the form at Home Depot. They sent out their local preferred contractor. The sales guy eyeballed my old furnace and said I needed a 3 ton Trane heat pump. Gave me a detailed estimate. It looked like this:
--------- New Heat Pump, Installed: $5842.00 ---------
He glossed over all my requests for information on efficiency, BTU's, etc. Kept telling me how much money I'd save every month. Gave me a brochure with pictures of attractive people looking cool and comfortable.
Out of general curiosity, I looked the unit up on eBay. $3000, buy-it- now.
As for labor, he said they'd be in and out in 1 day. $2842 / 8 = $355/ hr.
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(Dick Adams) wrote:

That's certainly comparing apples to apples. Not!
Does the Ebay price also include the fittings and tubing and the gas to charge the system?
Maybe where you live the installer's employees will gladly pick up the equipment and supplies on their own time. They are probably happy to dispose of the old equipment in their off hours as well rather then be paid to do it. A job like this will require two to three workers, but on TV it only takes 10 minutes for a complete installation.
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The estimate actually listed "Flush existing lines". If someone brought me a 39 year old car with a roached AC, I'd replace all the lines. Must be why the warranty is only 1 year.

Their own time? They get almost 3,000 bucks!
And I really hope you're not defending them. It just smelled of what you HVAC folks call a "hack".
Not like I know a thing about air conditioning, but I'd at least expect the sales monkey to blow some sunshine up my ass and make me feel like I'm getting my money's worth.
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wrote:

I'm not defending anyone, but I didn't like the idea of you complaining about a perceived $355. per hour for labor for a supposed 8 hour installation. If there are 3 men on the job it is 24 man hours which is $118. and change per man. This is a reasonable rate. There are always additional labor costs for a contractor in addition to the time spent on the job. In your case Home Depot is marking up the estimate so they make money as well as the contractor. Incidentally since your first estimate is with Home Depot I strongly urge you to get several more prices. I have heard many stories about Home Depot installations and not all of them have been good. Some experiences have been recanted in this newsgroup.
The only way to compare apples to apples is to come up with your own specifications and plans and have several contractors bid on the exact same items.
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wrote:

That is good advice. For a job that is going to cost >$6000, not getting a bunch of quotes is insanity. This isn't a $130 plumber call.
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I would expect an experienced tech to charge over $100/hr. The 2 workers that drag the old oil burner out of the basement aren't worth that much. I guarantee the contractor I talked to would show up with one (hopefully) qualified tech and two "undocumented guest workers" for the grunt work. Just seems to be the way things are done around here.

Planning on it. Thanks.

You have the right idea there. I need to do my homework first.
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Well, a good quality outside unit (compressor, coil, fan) usually has built in isolaton valves and MOST of the "gas" is already in the unit. Most of the weight of the gas is in liquid form. A small about of gas would be added after the tube set and the inside coil are installed, connected, and pumped down.
In some cases, both the tube set and the inside coil are shipped precharged. All the tech does is connect things and then does some temperature/pressure checks to see whether any more "gas" needs to be added or taken out.

The only HEAVY unit is the outside unit. My outside unit was replaced by ONE man and his wife. She mainly provided moral support, as he had an "powered" hand truck to move the unit up and down steps. I would doubt that a 70,000 btu input unit would weight more than an ice box. But maybe a case can be made for 2 workers (with one being a goffer). Only one guy needs to be a HVAC tech.
The extra time needed to pick up the new stuff and dump the old might be 2 hours depending upon local circumstances.
Frankly, I just don't trust any HVAC companies. I would like a one man shop with the guy picking up casual help when he needs over any "company." When a company screws up they blame the "new guy." With the one man shop, we know where the buck stops.
But that's my experience.

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I wondered how they did that. I assume they connect the inside-to- outside lines, pull a vacuum on them, then open the isolation valves?

Mine was installed with a crew of 3; 2 experienced workers and the HVAC tech. One did the inside work, one did the outside work, and the HVAC tech floating between the two keeping an eye on things and helping where needed. That's why they got the job done in less than 5 hours and moved on to the next job.

When mine was put in, the installer had the supplier deliver the unit to the site. When the old unit was removed, he called a scavanger who came in a old pickup with his kids and hauled everything off. Saved the installer time & labor.
Red
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"I wondered how they did that. I assume they connect the inside-to- outside lines, pull a vacuum on them, then open the isolation valves?
When my outside unit was replaced by my local HVAC guy, that's how he did it. All the connections were brazed, of course.
IMO, the BEST thing you can do for yourself is find a local guy you trust and knows what he is doing. When my outside unit failed, I didn't "shop" for bids; if "my guy" makes a few extra $100, I don't begrudge him.
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new forced air furnace with air......
old furnace removed a week earlier, to facilitate interiore french drain install, i cemented up old chimney flue connection and painted wall in advance
started at 8 am, thee techs had it in and complete by 2pm. $4350 bucks 70,000 btu furnace, 2.5 ton AC
nice neat install including some ductwork changes. had to bore holes in block walls for lines.
its so nice having hole house air
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On Jun 24, 12:36pm, The Reverend Natural Light

Buy it yourself and you have no warranty.
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They'll only give me a one year warranty. Yay.
Doesn't matter. I can't buy it anyways. R22 precharged. Even if I could, the only gas I can get to fill it with comes from burritos.
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Dick Adams wrote:

Realistically, if you ask for the breakdown and force the issue, they'll just make numbers to fit the total so you really will learn nothing useful.
Other than the occasional unit one may find as second-source or other on a web source, afaik there is no HVAC equipment supplier that provides dealer cost for their equipment.
About all one can do is, as others have suggested, is to compare quotes for similarly rated equipment from various installers and try to follow up on references as to who have been and have not been good to work with and homeowners are satisfied w/ their systems and installations.
For labor, it's anything from a half-day for single-unit, everything in the open, no new lines, etc., to as much as 2-3 days if need to pull new lines that are in wall cavities, etc.
There are simply too many variables for anybody to provide any real definitive answers remotely, unfortunately.
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