copper or cpvc water pipes?

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wrote:

I lived in Las Vegas for 15 years. PVC would last about 1 summer in the sun, and then that was it.
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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:27:58 -0700, "Zootal"

most people with a well have pipes outside and they are always white PVC. Explodig pipe is not a huge problem.
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Yeah, all the well pipes here are underground. It's the altitude for us that does it. At 5800 ft above sea level, the sun is pretty intense. That's why a number of folks refer to Albuquerque as the "skin cancer capital of the world". I've lived in a number of places, travelled to many others, and have never felt the sun more intense than it is here. With that comes extreme dryness as well so that may be playing a part in the plastic's demise as well. Cheers, cc
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feet the amount of UV reaching the pipe is much more than it is at sea level - anyone who mountain climbs knows this. I've got 2nd degree burns from not respecting how much more UV exposure you get at the top of even a moderately tall mountain.
It's my limited understanding that the PVC is worn out by the UV radiation reacting with the chlorine in the pipe - something that CPVC as much of due to how it's processed. But I think all plastic is harmed by UV radiation, I know that PEX is, PVC certainly is, nylon not so much, and I'm sure a few others.
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The grey PVC pipe they make for electrical conduit has UV inhibitors. It is designed for outside use and holds up nicely.
I guess the reason they don't bother putting the UV inhibitor in normal plumbing pipe, is because it usually doesn't sit out in the sun. Most of the time it's buried underground or under a floor in insulation.
Anthony
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:44:55 -0700, "Eigenvector"

Simple solution. Put all plastic pipe inside of copper pipe, use the next size up in the copper. Like 1/2" cpvc inside 3/4" copper. Oh, wait a minute, soldering the copper would melt the cpvc. You have to use steel pipe instead. :)
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snipped-for-privacy@UNLISTED.com wrote:

pipe?
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George E. Cawthon wrote:

Why to keep all those dangerouse emissions the CPVC puts out from escaping of course.
Harry K
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I'm in Arizona, and the PVC pipe I've seen turns brittle a lot earlier than ten years, unless it's covered with white latex paint, and even PVC conduit made to be UV resistant starts showing brown-purple spots after a year. About the only PVC that seems impervious to sunlight here is the kind used for siding and rain gutters.
Why isn't CPVC used more for plumbing? It seems like the perfect pipe to me, except when for resistance against gophers gnawing on it.
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On 11 Aug 2006 09:55:38 -0700, "larry moe 'n curly"

haveheard of a builder using copper in 10 years and my wife is a builder. I used to see copper in commercial but certainly not all of the commercial jobs. Usually only the state jobs.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

CPVC won't.

Big deal, put in a cheap hanger from plumbers tape.

CPVC doesn't. It may split on the cast line if you screw a female CPVC onto a male galv but that is about it.

CPVC doesn't impart tast or leak contaminants - how come you missed that lie?

Try reading the glue container. It is serviceable in a few minutes.

I must say you managed to cram a whole lot of lies into a short post.
Harry K
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PVC gets brittle in time especially in sun light ( you should always paint it) definitely never use it for air lines regardless of what any body says. Now CPVC I have never used for water but have used it for chemical lines, I'm not sure if it gets brittle over time. Myself I'll stick with copper but there are situations plastic is better ( pools, chemical lines, waste from soda machines ) This is pretty interesting http://www.ppfahome.org/cpvc/faqcpvc.html
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Sacramento Dave wrote:

Hi, And weak to hot temp. Now they use PEX tubing.
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I've been planning to re-plumb most of an old house we bought in my home town for vacations, using pex products. My investigation so far hasn't revealed much in the way of negatives about pex pipe. The Lowes around here are stocking a good selection of Zurn brand pex pipe, fittings and tools. BTW, Zurn now has a new tool, and new crimp rings, so one needs only the one (expensive) tool to do 4 sizes of tubing. The new tool is the kind that pinches an ear on the crimp ring, as opposed to the tools that surround and squeeze the entire ring. That means that it can be a bit smaller, and thus fit into some tighter spaces. Ease of installation, resistance to freezing, and manifold type of installation seem to be pluses to me. If anyone has had bad luck with pex, I'm probably not the only one who would like to hear of it. I'm getting ready to puchase the tools and supplies pretty soon. Home Depot seems completely unaware of pex plumbing, and Menards home centers do carry pex (Durapex), but perhaps not as complete a set as that of Lowes. Thanks for any input.
Bates
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I replaced most of my old rusty galvanized pipes under the crawl space with oversized copper pipe when prices for copper hit rock bottom just a few years back. But, I also used pex tubing for my radiant floor system around the same date, due to concerns about concrete/copper chemical reactions. Pex won't collect so much calcium/magnesium on the interior of the pipe I understand either, so for long term plumbing like the radiant floor, I had no choice.
I found the pex to be relatively easy to work with because fewer joints are required. The tubing can bend around wide corners, and squeaking is a thing of the past with this material. Be careful not to pinch the hose when bending, or a weak spot will develop. If necessary, a little heat will make the Pex rebound to new though. I used stainless steel hose clamps and brass fitings for connections with the pex and haven't found any problems. Heat the Pex slightly, and it will fit over the barbed fitings, and then when cool fits pretty tight anyway. The new fittings probably are better, but it's not a big deal. The only problem with Pex that I've heard of is under very high temperature situations. If your solar water flows through at temperatures above 180F, I'd be worried about a meltdown, but I run 140F through my system all the time without concern. Copper won't face this high temp problem, so I'd probably use copper for solar panel and hot water heater connections.
As for using PVC or anything related to that inside the house, I wouldn't do it. Outside, for irrigation lines, and maybe even for the main water line leading to the house, yes, but a burst water pipe in the wrong place is a real expensive nightmare to be avoided at almost any cost. PVC degrades much faster in sunlight, but it does dry out even in the dark, and becomes brittle over time regardless, and so shouldn't be used inside the house. I still used soft copper tubing for a recent water main to house connection. Even though it's buried two feet down, I still worry that seismic or shovel action could crack PVC.
If you can afford copper it, get oversized type L pipes though. I ran type L 1-1/2" copper cold water and 3/4" hot water copper pipes under my crawl space. The mainfold for the radiant floor system was 2" pipe. I don't like water softeners, and I don't want calcium build-up to be a problem in my lifetime in the main lines of the house system. It also helps reduce water hammer and other strange sounds...But, given copper prices today, PEX is the way to go most everywhere, except the garden.
Bates wrote:

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Over sizing pipes can cause more wait time for hot water. Larger pipe= more volume to move, especially these days with all the low flow fixtures. PEX is fine until a Rodent decides to bite in and that dose happen. You need to have someone size the system for you it is all based on fixture unites( Lavi = 1 fixture unite) there is some science to it.

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I chose CPVC piping when I plumbed our house a couple of years ago.
I decided against copper because we have acidic water that can cause pinhole leaks in the pipe over time. It also takes a bit of skill and practice to solder copper fittings, and there's always a small risk of starting a house fire with the torch. Copper pipe is also rather expensive these days.
PEX was my second choice, but very few stores in my area stocked it. If I needed to make an emergency repair or small addition, I may not be able to find the pipe or fittings nearby. PEX also required a special crimping tool that was rather expensive at the time.
In the end, I chose CPVC pipe. It won't corrode like copper, and doesn't require any special tools to install. It's inexpensive, and widely available at any home center or local hardware store. It's quick to install, and very easy to work with.
Anthony
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The builders use that plastic stuff because it's cheaper, and even a Mexican can install it. Other than that, it has no real advantage over copper. The slight flexability of copper may make it advantageous in some circumstances. Both are fairly reliable, but I have my doubts about threads on anything plastic. Obviously copper will cost more. I would probably not mix the two types in a house.
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The garden hose piping or also called PEX. is exactly as you said I'll leave out the Mex. stuff , it's nothing but low end crap a money maker for the contractor no real; skill to install it just drill a go.
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The garden hose isn't the same material as PEX. Use Google to find the PEX vendors and learn about the stuff, it's not a third-world product, but is extensively used in radiant floor heating and in Europe. It is what is used in many new houses now, not that this recommends its use elsewhere. I'm curious about the CVPVC. I wouldn't use PVC inside my house though, that's for sure. I realize that people put plastic everywhere these days, but the long term outlook for lots of it doesn't look good to me. As for the pinhole problems in copper, I can see from comments posted that certain water conditions apparently are a problem, but fortunately this isn't the case in my area. But, a lot of type M copper is simply too thin, and I would not be surprised if the grade of copper is the real problem in some of the cases mentioned. I dug up recently a length of 1" copper in my garden, a part of a 40 year old irrigation system for pumping water from the San Joaquin River, was found to be in such excellent condition, that I may put it back into service. If it had been plastic, my shovel would have cracked it during removal. As for the pipe sizing issue, I'll agree that delivery pressure and volume issues have to be considered and tested for the job to be done right.
Sacramento Dave wrote:

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