Coordinating repairs on old house

:On 2006-10-01, BobK207 wrote: : :> My suggestion would be to look him up, he's got a whole lot of :> experience under his belt by know & he's put a lot of thought into :> the process : :Aw shucks, I think you are giving me a little too much credit too :soon, I'm still in the middle of my rehabing my house, I'll feel more :confident when I've completed this house. : :Cheers, Wayne

I can vouche for Wayne. He can talk the talk but he can do and has done considerable impressive work on his house. He researches his subjects thoroughly and is elequent in discussing them. I haven't seen him cutting corners. I want to see what he does with his kitchen. I'm confident he will do a great job on it. He's currently residing with cedar shingles, and I'm sure it will come out great.

Dan

Reply to
Dan_Musicant
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:On 2006-10-01, Dan_Musicant wrote: : :> On 1 Oct 2006 04:58:42 -0700, "tim1198" wrote: :>

:> : Sometimes it's cheaper to start from scratch because construction :> : people can get much more accomplished not trying to fit a square peg :> : into a round hole. That's why renovations typically cost more than new :> : construction. :>

:> By scratch I assume you mean what I described, not tearing the house :> down, but I'm not sure. : :I believe he meant demolishing the whole house. Wayne

It's something I've wondered about. In fact, when I had a GC over to evaluate everything it was really the fundamental question I had in mind: Is this a tear-it-down and start all over again property or is this house worth saving? The GC didn't seem to think it the fundamental question, although I may not have voiced my thought. His take was clearly "this is a fundamentally well constructed house. If you spend $150,000 on it now, it can be undated including foundation, siding, electrical, plumbing, remodel kitchen and bathrooms, new roof, a new central heating system (including ducting), paint inside and out, refinish the downstairs hardwood floors, repair the chimney. I'm sure I left out something!

Dan

Reply to
Dan_Musicant

---> Posted and emailed I'm wondering if it's reasonably practical to put off the :> foundation, leveling and siding work and do the other stuff now. : :No, I don't think so, for the same reasons as others have mentioned. :The foundation and leveling are the first order of business. Since :you will have to partially remove the siding to do the foundation, :residing should be done shortly thereafter. : :Now an important question is whether the plaster on the interior of :the exterior walls should be retained or not. If it is generally in :good condition, I suggest simply patching it as necessary. In this :case, your access to the inside of the exterior walls is only while :residing, and so any plumbing/electrical/insulating work in those :walls should be done before residing.

Yes, I'm not sure how viable that plaster is. Of course, assuming the lath is solid, the old plaster could be removed and new plaster applied to the old lath. It seems to me that would be easier and cheaper than removing all the lath and installing blueboard and applying veneer plaster. It's not all bad looking, just a lot of it. I think some walls look pretty OK. Some of the ones with some problems look look like they can be repaired without wholesale removal of all the plaster. : :If, on the other hand the interior plaster on the exterior walls is :generally in bad condition, and you want to replace it all (I suggest :blueboard and veneer plaster), then it will be simpler to do the work :in those walls from the inside. Then just go ahead and get the :foundation and exterior shell updated as one extended project, and do :the interior work as another extended project.

Coordination would be less of a problem with that scenario. The more coordination is a problem the more I think I should have a GC involved.

:As to the question of living in the house while replumbing and :rerunning the electrical, it is possible to do without a huge amount :of trouble. The basic idea is that you'll be installing entirely new :electrical and plumbing systems, so you run the new systems parallel :to the old systems, and when the new systems are (almost) complete, :you cut over to them and stop using the old systems. Cutting over :should only take a couple days and be bearable. This won't really :work for the DWV, as the pipes are so big, but since you have multiple :bathrooms, the DWV replacement can be done in stages. As to the :electrical, it may also be convenient to do the work in stages, with :just one or two rooms shut off at a time.

Thanks for these comments. They are reassuring and sound quite sensible. I take it DWV refers to drainage/sewer stuff.

: :Those are my thoughts, of course I'm in the middle of doing all this :right now. When I've finished I'm sure I'll be able to give a better :answer. :-) I elected to retain the interior plaster, it was in good :condition, so I'm presently insulating and resheathing the exterior :walls from the outside of the house. It's a slow process for one :person, right now I'm racing against the coming rains. So I'm quite :busy, sorry to have delayed in responding. : :Cheers, Wayne

Good luck. BTW, they say things will get wet tomorrow, or somewhat likely (Wednesday!).

Dan

Reply to
Dan_Musicant

(snip)

You almost never want a house sitting lower on the lot. For a foundation replacement, they usually do lift, but only a tiny bit, an inch or so. But that is so they utilities don't break. Since you are changing all those anyway, it sounds like, that isn't a worry. Once the jacks are there, an extra six inches only means one more layer of cribbing under the needle beams, and that extra six inches makes it a lot easier on the mason.

Your place is on a crawl, right? Replacing the foundation is a convenient time to gain a little extra clearance to make working down there easier. If you had a basement, it is a good chance to change a head-banger cellar into a usable basement.

aem sends...

Reply to
<aemeijers

No, I don&#39;t think there would be any net lowering at all. The temporary beams and cribbing would be tight against the floor joists, and the new foundation would be poured right to the underside of the new mudsill.

Cheers, Wayne

Reply to
Wayne Whitney

I&#39;m not sure that&#39;s true. Veneer plaster is a one or two coast process, 1/8" to 1/4" thick, while plaster over lath will be quite a bit thicker. The extra material and labor to install it may match the cost of replacing the wood lath with gympsum board plaster base.

DWV = drain/waste/vent.

Cheers, Wayne

Reply to
Wayne Whitney

:(snip) :>

:> Yes, when I said the house would be jacked up, I really didn&#39;t mean that :> they would elevate it, just that it would be supported by jacks until :> support beams (2 parallel, possibly 3, I&#39;m not sure) could be placed and :> the house _lowered_ down from the jacks onto the beams. It would rest :> there until the foundation was poured and ready for attachment, :> presumably to be lowered a tad in the process. Thanks, Wayne. :>

:You almost never want a house sitting lower on the lot. For a foundation :replacement, they usually do lift, but only a tiny bit, an inch or so. But :that is so they utilities don&#39;t break. Since you are changing all those :anyway, it sounds like, that isn&#39;t a worry. Once the jacks are there, an :extra six inches only means one more layer of cribbing under the needle :beams, and that extra six inches makes it a lot easier on the mason. : :Your place is on a crawl, right? Replacing the foundation is a convenient :time to gain a little extra clearance to make working down there easier. If :you had a basement, it is a good chance to change a head-banger cellar into :a usable basement. : :aem sends...

The crawl space isn&#39;t the tightest, but it is a definite crawl. I don&#39;t believe you could do more that sit on your ass in there with your head up, and maybe not even that in a lot of places. In truth, it isn&#39;t entirely level under there. The worst part is that it&#39;s all dirt. The book I&#39;m reading ("Renovating Old Houses" by George Nash, 2003 edition) suggests that this is a problem because moisture inevitably enters the house due to evaporation of moisture from the soil coming up from the ground table water. I&#39;ve had problems over the years during rainy season with excess humidity in the house. Now, there&#39;s no central heating, so that&#39;s certainly a factor. But the condensation I typically get in the winter months is certainly a problem and there&#39;s a certain amount of fungus activity evidenced by the odors in certain rooms, especially at certain times. I don&#39;t see it on the walls, but I can smell it. I do all I can in practical terms to reduce the humidity. I&#39;ve given up cooking soupy concoctions for long period on the stove, for the most part, and I try to get things as dry as I can in practical terms in my bathroom after taking a shower.

Maybe something can be done to reduce moisture in the house when the new foundation is placed. Of course, a drainage system can be installed, but in addition to that, perhaps something can be done to prevent evaporation from the ground water from entering the house. Obviously, it&#39;s not impossible to excavate and create a true basement. At the very least, a layer of polyethelene could be put down and covered with gravel or some other substance.

One foundation contractor said he could make additional space under the house to accommodate a central heating system. Someone else said there is already plenty of space for that. I don&#39;t know who&#39;s view was the wiser. Truthfully, I&#39;ve had a few experts take a good look but I&#39;m not confident in the information I&#39;ve gotten. Everyone has had a different take on things. I wish I could get George Nash under the house. He said he was formerly a "foundation doctor."

As you say, there&#39;s a real advantage in lifting the house when replacing the foundation so that it isn&#39;t so hard on the workers. I presume that would render my plumbing inoperative for a while. The electricity comes in at the roof level, so I assume it wouldn&#39;t be affected.

Dan

Reply to
Dan_Musicant

:On 2006-10-04, Dan_Musicant wrote: : :> Yes, when I said the house would be jacked up, I really didn&#39;t mean that :> they would elevate it, just that it would be supported by jacks until :> support beams (2 parallel, possibly 3, I&#39;m not sure) could be placed and :> the house _lowered_ down from the jacks onto the beams. It would rest :> there until the foundation was poured and ready for attachment, :> presumably to be lowered a tad in the process. : :No, I don&#39;t think there would be any net lowering at all. The :temporary beams and cribbing would be tight against the floor joists, :and the new foundation would be poured right to the underside of the :new mudsill. : :Cheers, Wayne

I haven&#39;t an idea how it&#39;s done, I was just guessing. I&#39;ve heard that it would be supported on parallel beams, that&#39;s all I know. I suppose the can manage that with very little movement, and also little movement when the house is bolted to the new foundation. Obviously zero movement is impossible. Anyway, to get the weight on the beams, there has to be a transferance of load and a means of determining (I would think) that the beams are indeed bearing all the load before they start tearing out the old foundation!

Dan

Reply to
Dan_Musicant

:On 2006-10-04, Dan_Musicant wrote: : :> Yes, I&#39;m not sure how viable that plaster is. Of course, assuming :> the lath is solid, the old plaster could be removed and new plaster :> applied to the old lath. It seems to me that would be easier and :> cheaper than removing all the lath and installing blueboard and :> applying veneer plaster. : :I&#39;m not sure that&#39;s true. Veneer plaster is a one or two coast :process, 1/8" to 1/4" thick, while plaster over lath will be quite a :bit thicker. The extra material and labor to install it may match the :cost of replacing the wood lath with gympsum board plaster base. : :> I take it DWV refers to drainage/sewer stuff. : :DWV = drain/waste/vent. : :Cheers, Wayne

Thanks. I just looked up DWV, yep. You may be right about the veneer plaster over blueboard. I think that once I got good at it, I would see the advantage over 2 or 3 coat plaster systems. There would be a LOT less plastering, and it would probably go a lot faster all in all. I don&#39;t think the cost difference would be a major factor, either. I made a lot of calls a month or so ago and see that Truitt and White does sell blueboard.

Dan

Reply to
Dan_Musicant

No, that&#39;s my point, zero movement is possible. The temporary beams are wedged up tight to the floor joists, and the new foundation is poured right up to the new mud sill, with the bolts hanging in place from the mud sill before the pour. The foundation is wider than the mud sill, so that provides an opening between the top of the forms for the concrete to be pumped in.

Cheers, Wayne

Reply to
Wayne Whitney

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