control boards in modern appliances

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On 9/28/2010 11:32 AM, westom wrote:

When I'm building a computer for myself, I don't scrimp on the power supply. 8-)
TDD
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bud-- wrote:

My house, built in the '60s, has galvanized iron pipe throughout. It's built on a slab with all pipes in the walls and the attic.
Eventually, the iron pipe exits the wall to connect to the city water system. As the pipe leaves the house, it encounters a valve, then, on the other side of the valve, plastic to the city.
There is no connection between any of my water pipes and the earth -- unless you count the conductivity of the water itself.
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HeyBub wrote:

I have consistently limited comments to "metal, 10ft..." which obviously does not apply to your house.
On the other hand what you wrote: "the purpose of attaching the electrical ground to a water pipe is not to ground the electrical system, it's to ground the plumbing system" is not true in general. And you reinforced Salty, who appears to not want metal water service pipes to be used for system earthing.
Limiting your post to plastic water service pipe would have solved the problem.
--
bud--




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wrote:

What? You HAVE become westom.

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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Perhaps you could post something relevant to what is being discussed, like is a metal water service pipe required to be an earthing electrode?
--
bud--

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On Sep 25, 8:46pm, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

bud posts insults constantly, in part, because others will believe the insults rather than technical facts. If he insults, then others will forget that I said years ago "the water pipe is the least acceptable electrode and is the only one that may never be used by itself as the sold electrode.". bud is lying to misrepresent me. He must do that to divert attention from him. He hopes everyone will ignore that he cannot even comprehend paragraph 250.53(D)(2).
Years ago, bud insisted the word 'supplemental' meants another electrodes is not required. He could not understand the meaning of supplemental - which means the water pipe electrode is insufficient. As paragraph 250.53(D)(2) says and as I have posted for years, a water pipe electrode is the only earthing electrode that is insufficient. To confuse you, he now says things I never said. Posting insults and lying is bud's nature.
He also denies to promoting his company products in newsgroups. Another example of his ethics. Meanwhile paragraph 250.53(D)(2) was quoted to him years ago. He lies to deny that. And he again denies obvious reality in this thread. bud was always a nasty and unethical person. He never changed. Again denies water pipe is not sufficient for earth ground.
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westom wrote:

w is insulted by reality, which is what I provide.

As is obvious from threads on the device-I-dare-not-name, w thinks if he repeats his beliefs often enough others will believe. I provide reliable sources.

I want people to remember what you have said. I even quote what you said:
"connections to water pipes are only for removing electricity" "water pipe is no longer acceptable as an earth ground" "water pipes are not intended primarily for electrical earthing - therefore water pipes are no longer sufficient for earthing"

One of w's many hallucinations. Provide the quote.

w thinks that a ground rod - resistance to earth of maybe 25 ohms - is superior to a metal water supply system - resistance to earth of maybe 3 ohms.

A water pipe is the only electrode that is likely to be in a house that is *required* to be used as an earthing electrode.

More hallucinations from w. What you have said is readily available on google.

w is so pathetic.
Still not answered: If you have a metal water service pipe are you required to use it as an earthing electrode?
Can't answer simple questions about earthing electrodes either?
--
bud--

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So bud again post insults. Hoping you will ignore his ignorance. bud for years said a water pipe earth ground, by itself, is sufficient. And it is the best earthing electrode. That was true before 1978. And has not been true for decades.
Bud also claimed household pipes can be used as an equipment ground. That also changed long ago. No appliance should be safety grounded to water pipe - even if bud denies it.
bud simply refuses to learn. Even in his last post, he denies reality in paragraph 250.53(D)(2). So that you don't see him again posting lies, he also posts insults. No wonder his wife left him. His wife even got tired of his electrical ignorance.
And so nasty bud has simply become even nastier.
Despite everything bud claims, never use water pipes as a safety ground. Pipes are now bonded to the electrical box so that pipes do not become electrically hot - as others have noted.. Pipes are no longer acceptable as a safety ground no matter how many times bud denies it. The only earthing electrode that is insufficient is a water pipe earth ground. bud again denies that reality. Failed electrician even has a problem reading one paragraph - 250.53(D)(2).
Nasty bud is not trustworthy or educated. As indicated by personal insults in every post. He will reply with more insults because that is what bud always does. So many others have posted what I posted years ago. Water pipe earth ground is insufficient for earthing a structure - no matter how many times bud denies it.
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westom wrote:

The same drivel. The same confused language.
Still not answered - a really simple question: If you have a metal water service pipe are you required to use it as an earthing electrode?
--
bud--

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bud-- wrote:

Think open neutral - at your house or a neighbors on the same transformer.
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On 09/23/10 11:19 am, bud-- wrote:

I assume that you mean "1977": I can't imagine that the NEC existed in 1777.
But I think you and HeyBub are talking about two different things. Yes, IF there is a metal water pipe with at least ten feet in the ground it must be used as one element of the grounding system -- but always supplemented by at least one ground rod (two to avoid having to prove that the first one has no more than 25 Ohms resistance).
BUT if there is metal plumbing but the supply line is not metal with at least ten feet in the ground, then that metal plumbing must be bonded to the electrical system ground so that the plumber does not get electrocuted by an accidentally live water pipe. Ours isn't, as far as I can tell.
Similarly, gas piping must be bonded to the electrical system ground for the same reason. Ours isn't, as far as I can tell.
Perce
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The Continental Congress must have been rather busy that year. The 1777 congress also mandated airbags in passenger cars, and 1.6 GPF toilets. In addition to writing much of the Bill of Rights.
--
Christopher A. Young
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ransley wrote:

Good point. A whole-house surge protector is in the neighborhood of $50-60 and is trivial to install in the circuit-breaker box.
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It does seem like you have bad luck with these. I'd suspect power issues though most of them have switching power supplies these days and can take a lot of abuse. I think you can get ovens and fridges that are still mechanical but I'm not so sure about dishwashers. They will be the "cheap" models though.
Control boards replacing mechnical controls statistically is more reliable. Any time you replace moving parts with electronic ones the outcome is generally better. It also allows for more features that would not have been possible otherwise. It is also cheaper to produce. Don't expect it to change.
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I've heard many complaints about electronics in newer appliances. Seems like the more "features" added, the lower the reliability. Ranges are the worst, probably due to the heat. When we bought a new gas range, one of the requirements was no electronics. We bought a Bertazzoni range. All mechanical and works well.
Given the fact that you blew out three boards in two years, I'd check the incoming voltage and add surge suppressors on the line incase of spikes.
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So, why do you keep buying appliances WITH control boards? I'm sure someone still makes 'em without.
nb
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notbob wrote: ...

...
If you can find one, it would be interesting where it might be and who is producing it (and what its features/cost are/is)...
--
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http://tinyurl.com/2523ckz
You can't tell me there aren't more.
You have to decide what you really want. You want digital clocks and digital temp readouts and all that crap, you can't avoid control boards. Myself, I can do without a clock on my stove jes fine cuz I got one on the wall. ;)
nb
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Reminds me of the store that put up a big sign. Before I got my digicam, or I'd have taken a picture.
They had moved all the shopping carts outside, the sign said "to serve you better" to take cart before going into the store.
Supposedly the electronics makest the devices more responsive to your needs and wishes.
--
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