Contractors Insurance: What To Ask For ?

Hello:
Will be dealing with a contractor for a roofing job. Have never really dealt with any before on a "big" job.
Regarding insurance that they should have:
a. What papers and proof of insurance should I request that I receive a copy of from him ?
I guess this should include Liability, and Workmen's Compensation, as well as some other types. Right ? What should I ask for specifically, please ?
What about insurance for Medical related accidents his workers might have happen on the job ? What kind of insurance should they carry for this ?
b. Also, I read about some time back about something called a "Workmen's Lien" Not at all sure I have the name correct.
Has to do with, I think, if the major contractor does not pay any workers he hires, they can sue the homeowner directly for lost wages, etc. What kind of paper work or insurance coverage should I request to see from him so that I am protected against this possibly happening ?
Anything else I should be asking here, but not smart enough to know to ask ?
Much thanks Bob
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"...Make sure your contractor is INSURED for both Worker's Compensation and General Liability. Don't take the contractor's word or accept a copy of an insurance binder from the contractor. The only secure way is to get the name of the contractor's insurance carrier, look the number up in the phone book yourself, then call and ask for a Certificate of Insurance. The carrier will be happy to send you one in the mail..."
http://www.garagedoorsupply.com/findacontractor.html
===================================Garage Door Parts, LLC 973-472-4818 http://www.garagedoorsupply.com ===================================

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Robert11 wrote:

Ok, I take it he is going to fix your house. Not you being a subcontractor fixing someone else's house under the contractors say so.
Get the contract in writing, and make sure there is a clause in there where he pays you if the job is not completed in full in X number of days, for every day after X days that the job is still not finished.
And not the company owing you, but the contractor personally. I knew of several guys that start jobs, then stick you up for more money to finish them. And it is really hard to find someone to take up a job that was started by someone else.
General liability, and lots of it. You can really wreck things big time on a construction cite.
The workers comp is a local deal, so I don't know if they can go after you there if you have a contract showing that the guys were hired by him and not you.
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That will be the first signal to the contractor that you are going to be a very high maintainance customer ... and that he should turn down the job.

Maybe the contractor could give you $50 000 cash up front ... and when the job is done to your satisfaction, you could give h im back the 50 grand plus the value of the job.

That's why you do a reference check.

Unless the market is dead and the contractor is starving, It is going to be really hard to find someone under the terms you're suggesting.
Ken
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.tnx wrote:

Standard professional contract around here. I have been doing construction for years, and any job where I am the contractor (not the subcontractor) had this type of contract involved.
If he balks at this, then he is trying to shaft you, or is incompetent and can't even guess at how long the job will take.
After all, if he thinks "I can easily do this job in one week", then all he has to do is make the contract for 3 months and you are both still covered.
If he can't do a one week easy job in three months, then he is shafting you. And if he never finishes the job at all, you have recourse without needing a lawyer.
Do you really want someone ripping the roof off your house who cannot give you any idea at all how long it will take to put the roof back on?

No need for either one to trust anyone with any money. Just do the job in 5 times the amount of time he thinks it will take and all is well. After all, he should be able to give you an idea how long it will take. Multiply that by 5 and write it up. Now if he just takes you money and runs, you have easy recourse. If he even tries to do the job, he can finish it in 5 times the expected time.

Reference checks are worthless. You have to ask him who to talk to, and he will only tell you the places he wants you to see. Never the ones where he copped an attitude and just walked off the job.

Obviously you haven't a clue. I do construction for a living. Do it all over the US. And every job had the same sort of contract involved.
Now, if you only deal with shade tree guys instead of professionals, then getting them to do this may be a problem.
But then, would you want someone ripping the roof off your house that could not give you any idea at all when he would finish it?
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Oooops. You just went over the line. Probably my fault for not seeing AOL in your headers, and treating you as if you were competent.
FOAD
PLONK
Ken
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.tnx wrote:

That was convincing. No contractor would us AOL eh? Like I said, you haven't a clue, and keep proving it.
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wrote:

in there

number of

finished.
going to

turn down

and when

back the

more
was started

going
suggesting.
Just cause he's paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get him.
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Kathy wrote:

Yep. I live in a small Oklahoma town, and I know of two such contractors operating right here who commonly start jobs, get money, then walk off.
And one of them was a roofer.
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CanopyCo wrote:

Regardless of that....
If worker's comp is required in your state and the contractor isn't carrying it, they he's a lawbreaker. Is that the kind of person you want to do business with?
Check the worker's comp insurance for sure. Don't take chances.
I knew a roofer in my Rotary Club. (He's now retired.) He told me that the worker's comp premiums he paid depended on the angle of the roof his guys were working on each day and he had to keep logs detailing how many hours they spent working on flat roofs anad also on roofs below and above some angular threshold. He said that in severe cases his premium rate exceeded 100 percent of the hourly rate he paid the guy doing the work.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
  Click to see the full signature.
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wrote:

I'm assuming yours in a standard enough residential job.
Contractors generally carry liability insurance .... if they damage your home, it is covered. One million is lots for your type of job.
Workman's comp varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In most, if a contractor has employees, he is required to have workman's comp to cover lost time, job related injuries. Especially important since they're working on a roof. <grin>
That said, I'm not convinced there is any recourse to the homeowner except where there is contributory negligence.
The lien you're referring to also varies a bit by jurisdiction. The contractor, or sub contractor as the case may be, has the right to place a lien on customer's property. The employees do not, their recourse is to their employer.
This right to lien is worthless, in my judgement. What it means is that if you stiff me for ten or twenty grand for your roof, I can lien your house for up to a year which is a problem for you only if you want to sell or re mortgage.
I have to sue for judgement to collect. Which means I have to wait two to five years for a court date .. and then I get to pay my lawyer a few thousand more than I collected.
There are ways you can protect yourself. Since the right to lien a property expires 45 days after completion, many projects hold back fifteen to 20 percent for 45 days to ensure no liens are forthcoming. Those are normal terms in industrial and commercial construction and in major renovations projects.
Less so, in the case of a residenttial roof.
The best protection you can get is to check references. Ask for them and check them out. Always, always, always see the job he is working on and the last one he completed. (He cannot cherry pick references that way.)
You will undoubtedlly get all kinds of advice .. . about demanding this and demanding that .... understand that yours probably is a small job. If the contractor is legitimate, he may be put off by a show of apparent distrust.
While you're trying to decide whether to trust him, he's trying to decide whether to trust you, and whether you're more bother than you're worth.
On a ten thousand dollar roof, he probably grosses three grand, and nets maybe a thousand, before tax.
And a lot depends on your market. Here, for example, building permits are almost exactly double what they were a year ago. I'm turning down good projects from good people who have been referred to me by clients ... let alone projects from people I don't know who treat me with distrust.
Ken
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.tnx wrote:

I finished my last job before you found me, but you can see that finished job if you want. It is over at my cousins house. He is expecting you, and will know not to tell you that he is related.
I have several other jobs like that for you to see if you want to see them, and none of them are the ones where I just walked off the job.

If he is a professional, he likely already has a contract written up like this for you to sign. I have one, and all the companies that I have dealt with for the past 10 years had one.

Him trust you? Pay $30 to a little lawyer to mediate the job. He gets your payment to the contractor with instructions to pay him on completion of the job.
Now, if the contractor cannot trust the lawyer, then he is trying to rip you off.
Why should you trust him if he is not willing to give you some sort of show of good faith?

Then he is not a professional. No contractor will take a job that will not allow him to be out of work for a month after your job while he is trying to start the next job.
Professional contractors do not do the work themselves. They have multiple crews doing the work on multiple jobs while they are lining up the next job.
Be aware that the lowest bidder is often too low to actually happen and will rip you off. Know what a job normally pays, and do not drop to much under that or you can expect problems. You get what you pay for.

If you could not fix your roof yourself, would you let me show you my relatives roofs, then rip you roof off without giving you any idea at all how long it would take me to put it back on?
Would you if all you could do is try to sue me if it took me, say 25 years? No judge, I am not finished with that job. He took me to court for being a slow worker. You can't prove in court that I will never finish that job, so all you got is that I am slow. And you have nothing to say that this is not the time frame that we agreed on in the first place.
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receive a

Compensation, as

workers might

"Workmen's
pay any

wages, etc.

request to see

?
know to ask ?

Any competant contractor would be happy to have thier insurance company mail and/or fax a certificate of insurance to you. Just call the contractor and they will call the insurer and have it sent. The certificate will list the contractors coverages and companies as well as your address where the work will be done. It's something they do everyday so don't think you are imposing to phone up the contractor.
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Kathy wrote:

Yes, But call the insuror yourself to be sure that he did not cancel the insurance after he got the paperwork sent out.
That is a common move around here for the shade tree construction guys.
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I just want to be clear on this. Your saying that this is std business practice for contractors in your area? Where is that? I have to agree with bam, here in NJ the contractor would just laugh at you and drive away.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Finished a job in Dec. Neosho, MO for Walmart building a new lawn and garden center. Had one there.
Had another one for Walmart doing the same thing in another MO town and it had that sort of thing.
15 Pilot truck stops from one end of CA to the other last year and all had that sort of contract.
And the Pilots truck stops in AR, MI, TN, WA, TX, MS, FL, IL, IN, KY, LA, NV, WY, and a few others that I can't remember right off the top of my head all had them.
And the Lowes jobs in CA, AR, OK, TX, SC had them.
I own land in Oklahoma, but as you can see, I do construction all over the united states.
Oh, I forgot the Loves truck stops that all had one too. And the Sonics.
I am not the contractor, but the subcontractor that actually goes out and does the work, but I know what the contract was so that I could fulfill its requirements in the allowed amount of time.
Call up a real construction company, one that has more them one crew, and ask them if they ever have a time limit imposed on them and if they get a penitently if they do not meet that time limit.
Nothing unusual about that at all. Would you want to hire someone that could not give you any idea how long a job would take and had no reason at all to take the rest of there lives finishing it?
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wrote:

As I remember from a basic course in contracts taken many years ago, a legal contract must comer five essential elements.
1. Legally competent parties.
2. Mutual agreement as to what is to be done..
3. Mutual consideration (both parties receive a benefit -- payment vs. work performed).
4. In a form required by law.
5. PERFORMANCE IN AN AGREED PERIOD OF TIME.
If you don't have an agreed period of time, you don't have a contract.
SJF
.
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