Connecting two 8 wires to gang box.

[Diane]

Hello,

I had a licensed HVAC guy come in to install a heat pump and an air handler and to rewire them to the breaker box. The inspection passed, and all is okay.

However, I have a second, smaller home next to my first, in which my mother-in-law lives. The same guy installed HP/handler and rewired as before, but he used what he called a "gang box(?)" or something to that effect, because he said that he ran out of wire and had to make a connection to the box.

Question: Is this okay to do when they run out of wire? I saw him and he connected them (8 size) with each other, put a cap on each set, twisted the caps, and capped the ground wire too. Then he put tape around each cap so that he created a seal around them (or so it seems). The box is in the attic.

I'm not an expert but am under the impression that electrons traveling through these twisted wires will find it harder to make the connection through the caps. The HVAC guy said that that would happen, but that it would not be a concern as long as the box is inside the house.

Thanks.

[HA HA Budys Here]

No it's not harder to "make the connection through the caps."

It's OK to splice wires, your homes wires are cut and spliced in at least 7 different places between the utility's transformer and your individual circuit breakers.

[Toller]

My mother's vacuum cleaner broke, so she unplugged it and untied a knot in the cord thinking maybe the electricity couldn't get through the knot.

So, you are trying to be silly, but some people really are that stupid.

[*CBHVAC*]

Around here, it would not be. Unless your HVAC guy has an electricians licence...but...thats here...not here...

OK..

It is fine. The electrical tape is to help in case one of the wire nuts were to come loose..

If you test the resistance on a section of wire the proper length, and the one you have...I doubt you see any change. The electrons dont care...

I might have used split bolts...but thats me...

[George E. Cawthon]

Some people just don't know. We had a safety inspector in the service that told everybody that knots in an extension cord were bad because when the electrons went around the curves they had to speed up and that made the wires hot. I wonder if his commanding officer believed the same thing?

[zxcvbob]

If the wire size is marginal, I suppose a knot can cause the wire to overheat because it can't disapate as much heat at the knot. Also, tying a knot in the wire might break some of the strands, which would add to the overheating problem.

-Bob

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I run a lot of curcuits for the HVAC equipment that i install and i see no problem with a Gang Box as you say but i call the Junction boxes. If done properly, it will be no problem at all except for being a eye sour if out in the building or on the outter wall of the building for Junction boxes have to be visiable to the area or to the circuit. Now it does say the installer might be a little on the cheap side to not roll the wire up and run a new curcuit with new wire and use the shorter wire on another job. Now this would be on new wire being run and not adding to old to go to the condenser or A/H.

I see no problem with a Juction box if installed properly.

TURTLE

[Anthony Straight]

Done properly, there is no problem with making a splice where required.

A "gang box" is simply an electrical box that can be connected to another such box to make a bigger box. In other words, they can be "ganged" together. Frequently, people call any electrical box a "gang box".

It is required that a splice be contained in an approved electrical box, as appears to be the case here. The tape should not be necessary, but if the splice is otherwise properly done, and the location is dry, it won't hurt anything. In a wet location, the tape cannot entirely prevent moisture intrusion, and will prevent the escape of moisture, promoting corrosion. In the attic, it shouldn't be a problem.

Don't worry about the twisted wires. The electrons will not become confused.

[David Efflandt]

The reason a knot in a cord is bad is because repeatedly bending copper tightly (or most any other metal) work hardens it, which makes it hard and more brittle, which can eventually break strands in the wire. But maybe I know that from working with copper tubing, resizing brass shell casings, and observing metals with electron microscope in materials science in engineering school.

However, if a larger amount of wire (or extension cord) is left coiled up to an appliance that uses high current, the coil of wire can effectively act as an induction heater (like a microwave oven at a lower frequency) which could heat up the wire. Whether a single knot would noticeably heat up depends upon whether the cord is already overheated, or breaking strands have increased its resistance.

However, twisting wires together once or twice for a wire nut is accepted practice and a non-issue.

[Chris Lewis]

According to David Efflandt :

Uh, not significant at 60Hz without a "core" (or even with a core unless there are a lot of turns).

The problem with coiled wire is that you're reducing its ability to dissipate heat by making it adjacent to more wire carrying the same current. As if you bundled it with other wires carrying the same amperage in conduit. See, for example, conduit wire-count derating tables.

The problem with knots is work-hardening, kinking the strands, and stressing the external sheath.

[George E. Cawthon]

Actually, a knot is used just inside many lamps and other applicances to hold the cord, so the knot per se is not bad. Induction heating from a knot is not possible. I think the main problem of knots in the open is that it presents a large target for possible damage.

[Diane]

What does tihs mean in English?

I have a junction box with 8 wire that was twisted 2-3 times, capped, and then taped....

[Chris Lewis]

According to Diane :

Copper, when bent a lot, "hardens" and becomes more brittle. A tight twist (from a knot) makes it worse.

Knots cause the sheath to stretch, and as the cable ages, it may not be able to "return to normal". It also gets brittle.

That's different. That's what's supposed to be done.

[Diane]

Well, thanks to all the folks who posted here. There was a person who once said that we can never ask too many questions (Einstein), and better safe than sorry anyway!