Connecting Ground wire with a Split Bolt

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The underground cable from my house to the meter pole (main disconnect) was installed before I bought this property. They used 4 wire underground service entrance cable. Two black (hot), one White stripe (neutral), and one green (ground).
The green wire is connected to the ground buss bar in the house's panel, but they never connected it to anything in the meter pole main box. The house has it's own ground rods (2 of them), but I still think that green wire should be grounded in that meter pole box, not just left unconnected.
I can see why they did not connect it. There are no spare ground lugs (screws). I've been meaning to do something with this, and finally went to do this job after several years. But there is no place to connect it as far as the lugs. However, there is the thick (#6) bare copper wire that goes to the ground rod below that panel, and it's right where this green wire ends inside that box.
My thought is to just put a split bolt around that bare copper wire and put the stripped end of the green wire into that split bolt too.
But two questions arise. I know this is a GOOD ground, but is this type of connection allowed by code. Also, the underground cable is aluminum, and the ground wire is copper. I dont like the idea of dissimilar metals, since they corrode. However I can get the split bolt that has a brass divider, that would separate these two metals.
Actually this is the only option I really have, other than just leaving it unconnected. (which is how it's been for years).
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On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:50:35 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

There should only be 3 wires coming from the transformer to the point where the ground rod connects in your panel (main bonding jumper)
You could connect them together if you want but do it at both ends. It is a technical violation but not a particular hazard.
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On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:19:04 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You're right. 3 wires, two are hot, one is neutral. The hots are fine. The neutral is connected to the same buss bar that the grounding system is connected.
Let me explain. This is a farm, where there is a main meter pole. The meter has a main disconnect panel under it. There are two pull out fuse blocks in there, each is 200A (400A service). I dont need half that amperage, but this was a once a large farm with all sorts of grain dryers and power consuming stuff. Now, I just run a small farm and dont need all that much power. But that old fuse panel is still there. I have two overhead triplex cables connected to one of these pull out fuses. They feed the barn and garage and other sheds. The house is connected via underground SE cable and is connected to the other pull out fuse. THe house and the garage and barn each have separate breaker panels each have their own MAIN breaker and each has their own grounding system.
Anyhow, getting back to that meter pole panel. The neutral and ground are bonded in that box. Thats normal. But the house has newer wiring and this there is that 4th wire (green wire) which does not exist in the overhead triplex cables to the other buildings.
When I moved here, the electric compamy inspected that panel before they would turn on the power. They said it was OK, even with that green wire NOT connected. So, I'm not really concerned about the code so much. But I still think that green wire should be connected to the ground on that end. (Mostly for lightning spikes).
In the house, there is a newer breaker panel, which has separate neutral buss bar and ground buss bar. So in the house they are separated and the green wire goes to the ground buss along with the house grounding system. However that green wire does nothing since it's not connected on the other end.
Back at the meter pole panel. Because there are 3 separate feeds and some very thick cables due to the 400A service. Therefore, there are no spare screws (lugs) for this green wire and none will accept another cable because they are not big enough to double up cables.
So, I'm back to either clamping it to the ground wire, or leaving it disconnected.
Like I said, the code is not all that important since the power company said things were OK. Even if it's a technical violation, I know it's not a hazard. I just think in the event of a lightning surge, the more grounding the better.
I'm mostly just concerned about connecting the aluminum cable to the copper one, regarding corrosion issues....
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On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 04:58:12 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

Use a cu/al rated lug to fasten the green wire to the 400 amp can. Use a bolt and nut thru the lug to a solid (no knockouts in the path and paint removed from contact area) part of the panel enclosure.
--
Mr.E

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On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 04:58:12 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

It should be bonded to the neutral in the enclosure where the main disconnect resides. Is there a way to bolt another lug to the ground bar in the main disconnect?
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wrote in message wrote:

You're right. 3 wires, two are hot, one is neutral. The hots are fine. The neutral is connected to the same buss bar that the grounding system is connected.
Let me explain. This is a farm, where there is a main meter pole. The meter has a main disconnect panel under it. There are two pull out fuse blocks in there, each is 200A (400A service). I dont need half that amperage, but this was a once a large farm with all sorts of grain dryers and power consuming stuff. Now, I just run a small farm and dont need all that much power. But that old fuse panel is still there. I have two overhead triplex cables connected to one of these pull out fuses. They feed the barn and garage and other sheds. The house is connected via underground SE cable and is connected to the other pull out fuse. THe house and the garage and barn each have separate breaker panels each have their own MAIN breaker and each has their own grounding system. ****************************************************************** What you have here is 200 Amp. 220 single phase supply service not 400. because one wire carry 200a. and the other 200a. that is not 400 amp. service. This service require number 3/0 wire conduit 2.1/2". If your property does not need of that power suggestion is reduce size of fuses to 100A. Which in most cases for normal house is sufficient enough. Ground Green or bare wires must be connected together and grounded on both sides. Caution: if this wires are not grounded on both sides at poll and at house it is possible to have induced Voltage into the wire/cable (potential) be "careful" If there are no connecting place to tight together you can drill small hole and use small bolt with nuts to secure tighter. Remember you are working next to Electricity and Electricity dose not discriminate. *****************************************************************
Anyhow, getting back to that meter pole panel. The neutral and ground are bonded in that box. Thats normal. But the house has newer wiring and this there is that 4th wire (green wire) which does not exist in the overhead triplex cables to the other buildings.
When I moved here, the electric compamy inspected that panel before they would turn on the power. They said it was OK, even with that green wire NOT connected. So, I'm not really concerned about the code so much. But I still think that green wire should be connected to the ground on that end. (Mostly for lightning spikes).
In the house, there is a newer breaker panel, which has separate neutral buss bar and ground buss bar. So in the house they are separated and the green wire goes to the ground buss along with the house grounding system. However that green wire does nothing since it's not connected on the other end.
Back at the meter pole panel. Because there are 3 separate feeds and some very thick cables due to the 400A service. Therefore, there are no spare screws (lugs) for this green wire and none will accept another cable because they are not big enough to double up cables.
So, I'm back to either clamping it to the ground wire, or leaving it disconnected.
Like I said, the code is not all that important since the power company said things were OK. Even if it's a technical violation, I know it's not a hazard. I just think in the event of a lightning surge, the more grounding the better.
I'm mostly just concerned about connecting the aluminum cable to the copper one, regarding corrosion issues....
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They make split bolts with an interposer that separates the cu and al but using a lug is a better idea if you can find a way to bolt it to the bus.
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No, he has a 400 amp 240 volt single phase service, with 2 200 amp 240 volt fused disconnects - both of which can handle 200 amps of 240 volt loads. That is 200 amps line to line on each disconnect - or 400 amps line to line on the main feed.

If the house has a 200 amp panel, he needs the 200 amp disconnect and 200 amo fuses on that "disconnect" - and fusing the other "disconnect" at 200 amps is no problem if he has 200 amp rated triplex feeding the outbuildings. Otherwise, the triplex to each building needs to be rated at least for the capacity of the main breaker in the building in question.

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wrote in message = wrote:</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;The underground cable from my house to the meter pole = (main disconnect)</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;was installed before I bought this property. They used = 4 wire</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;underground service entrance cable. Two black (hot), = one White stripe</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;(neutral), and one green (ground).</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;The green wire is connected to the ground buss bar in = the house's panel,</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;but they never connected it to anything in the meter = pole main box. The</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;house has it's own ground rods (2 of them), but I still = think that green</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;wire should be grounded in that meter pole box, not = just left</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;unconnected.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;I can see why they did not connect it. There are no = spare ground lugs</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;(screws). I've been meaning to do something with this, = and finally went</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;to do this job after several years. But there is no = place to connect it</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;as far as the lugs. However, there is the thick (#6) = bare copper wire</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;that goes to the ground rod below that panel, and it's = right where this</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;green wire ends inside that box.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;My thought is to just put a split bolt around that bare = copper wire and</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;put the stripped end of the green wire into that split = bolt too.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;But two questions arise. I know this is a GOOD ground, = but is this type</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;of connection allowed by code. Also, the underground = cable is aluminum,</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;and the ground wire is copper. I don't like the idea of = dissimilar</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;metals, since they corrode. However I can get the split = bolt that has a</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;brass divider, that would separate these two = metals.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;Actually this is the only option I really have, other = than just leaving</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;it unconnected. (which is how it's been for = years).</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;There should only be 3 wires coming from the transformer to = the point</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;where the ground rod connects in your panel (main bonding jumper)</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;You could connect them together if you want but do it at = both ends. It</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;is a technical violation but not a particular hazard.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;You're right. 3 wires, two are hot,&nbsp; one is neutral. The = hots are fine.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;The neutral is connected to the same buss bar that the = grounding system</DIV> <DIV>&gt;is connected.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;Let me explain. This is a farm, where there is a main meter = pole. The</DIV> <DIV>&gt;meter has a main disconnect panel under it. There are two pull = out fuse</DIV> <DIV>&gt;blocks in there, each is 200A (400A service). I dont need half that</DIV> <DIV>&gt;amperage, but this was a once a large farm with all sorts of grain</DIV> <DIV>&gt;dryers and power consuming stuff. Now, I just run a small farm = and dont</DIV> <DIV>&gt;need all that much power. But that old fuse panel is still = there. I have</DIV> <DIV>&gt;two overhead triplex cables connected to one of these pull out fuses.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;They feed the barn and garage and other sheds. The house is connected</DIV> <DIV>&gt;via underground SE cable and is connected to the other pull out = fuse.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;THe house and the garage and barn each have separate breaker = panels each</DIV> <DIV>&gt;have their own MAIN breaker and each has their own grounding system.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;****************************************************************= **</DIV> <DIV>&gt;What you have here is 200 Amp. 220 single phase supply service = not 400.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;because one wire carry 200a. and the other 200a. that is not = 400 amp. </DIV> <DIV>&gt;service.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>No, he has a 400 amp&nbsp; 240 volt single phase service, with 2 = 200 amp</DIV> <DIV>240 volt fused disconnects - both of which can handle 200 amps of = 240</DIV> <DIV>volt loads. That is 200 amps line to line on each disconnect - or = 400</DIV> <DIV>amps line to line on the main feed.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;This service require number 3/0 wire conduit 2.1/2". If your = property does</DIV> <DIV>&gt;not need of that power suggestion is reduce size of fuses to 100A.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;Which in most cases for normal house is sufficient = enough.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;Ground Green or bare wires must be connected together and = grounded on both </DIV> <DIV>&gt;sides.</DIV> <DIV>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;= &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</DIV> <DIV>If the house has a 200 amp panel, he needs the 200 amp disconnect = and</DIV> <DIV>OR 200 Amp. Distribution panel with circuit barkers as needed equal = to 200 Amps.</DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------
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On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 2:37:31 PM UTC-5, tony944 wrote:

0

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I'm not adding each wire. I'm adding the two separate fused disconnects on the one service. He has two 200A disconnects. I can show you new construction here, large homes that have two 150A panels, right next to each other. Each has a 150A breaker, the service is 300A. By his description, it sounds like that is what he has. It's apparently a house plus a farm.



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On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 04:58:40 -0800 (PST), trader_4

You can have up to 6 grouped disconnects on a service.
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On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Do you agree that from the description of the OP, ie two 200A disconnects on one service that the service is 400A?
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On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:19:24 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Sounds right to me. Those old farm "maypoles" were popular ways to get power around the spread and generally once the service was set, nobody ever looked at it again since farmers usually can avoid most of the permitting process. I suppose pulling a permit for a house may have brought the kind of scrutiny that got him the 4 wire feeder but that was really only a requirement fairly recently. (99 or 02 maybe) It is a shame they did not connect the EGC to anything. It defeats the purpose and exposes him to a hazard. There is no fault path to trip a breaker other than the earth. Screwing a lug into the can at the disconnect is better than nothing (scrape off a little paint and use a star washer) but the right way is to connect directly to the bus bar, even if that means he has to add another bar, swing over one of the existing and add a jumper. Using a split bolt, connecting to the ground electrode conductor is legal too. Just be sure it is the duplex type with the interposer if you are mixing cu and al.
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I'm not adding each wire. I'm adding the two separate fused disconnects on the one service. He has two 200A disconnects. I can show you new construction here, large homes that have two 150A panels, right next to each other. Each has a 150A breaker, the service is 300A. By his description, it sounds like that is what he has. It's apparently a house plus a farm.
***************************************************************** A___(__/ __)______ Hot 200 amp. B___(__/ __)______ Hot 200 amp. single phase 200 amp service (not 400) C_____________ Neu. Eqv. to D_____________ Grd. #8 r 6
It is not how many disconnect or how many panels, it is what is supply, what size of line coming down the poll or what size transformer is supplying source, if disconnect is rated at 200 Amp. I don't care if it two fuses or three or one? it is still 200 amp service not 400.
*****************************************************************
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On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 11:46:16 AM UTC-5, tony944 wrote:

I'm willing to let Gfre settle the issue. He's an electrical inspector. It's not "a disconnect". It's TWO 200A disconnects connected to the same service. I say that's a 400A service, like the OP says. If you have two 200A disconnects on the same service, you could pull 400A without them tripping. Seems that would be a bad idea, with a service only rated for 200A.
Gfre?
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On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 08:52:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4

It does sound like he has 2 parallel service disconnects grouped on that maypole. That would allow 400a. On the line side of the service disconnect, it is all up to the power company what they want to run. I have seen the PoCo bring the same triplex they use for a 200, to a 320 or 400 service. It is up to the customer to complain that they have low voltage before the PoCo will act. They are eating the I2R losses for that smoking power drop. They usually do size an underground lateral using 310.15(B)(6) but that is still smaller than you get with the regular 310.16 ampacity table.
They are not really serious about wire size until you get to commercial because most homeowners greatly overestimate their power usage ... unless it is Al Gore. ;-)
If you averaged 100a your bill would be almost $2600 a month at .15 a KWH. The PoCo engineering department can see your bill. If it got that big, the DEA would be breaking down your door looking for a grow operation.
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wrote in message wrote: >On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 11:46:16 AM UTC-5, tony944 wrote:

It does sound like he has 2 parallel service disconnects grouped on on that pole. That would allow 400a. **************************************************** That would make sense but I do not think, is that what he is saying.. I could be wrong but it is said two fuses each 200 amp. with disconnect ratings of 200 amps. what they believe if one fuse is 200 A. and the other 200 A. that is 400 amp. service, *************************************************** On the line side of the service disconnect, it is all up to the power company what they want to run. I have seen the PoCo bring the same triplex they use for a 200, to a 320 or 400 service. It is up to the customer to complain that they have low voltage before the PoCo will act. They are eating the I2R losses for that smoking power drop. They usually do size an underground lateral using 310.15(B)(6) but that is still smaller than you get with the regular 310.16 ampacity table.
They are not really serious about wire size until you get to commercial because most homeowners greatly overestimate their power usage ... unless it is Al Gore. ;-)
If you averaged 100a your bill would be almost $2600 a month at .15 a KWH. The PoCo engineering department can see your bill. If it got that big, the DEA would be breaking down your door looking for a grow operation.
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On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 2:01:34 PM UTC-5, tony944 wrote:

Try reading what he wrote:
"The meter has a main disconnect panel under it. There are two pull out fuse blocks in there, each is 200A (400A service)."
He didn't say there were two fuses, he said there were TWO PULL OUT FUSE BLOCKS, ie disconnects. Presumable one is for the house, the other, parallel one is for the barn.
with

Again, that is *not* what he posted.
Try trimming posts too.
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I believe he has 2 fused disconnects, fused at 200 amps - with 2 fuses in each disconnect block. It is illegal and has been for decades, to have "main" fuses that are not pulled as a pair at the "disconnect" The one "disconnect" feeds the house. The second "disconnect" feeds the barns and outbuildings.
This ie why I say it would be a 400 amp service.
The OP can correct me If I misunderstood. Anyone else is just guessing.

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On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:42:31 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You understand correctly what I said. Two fuse blocks with two 200A fuses in each one. That *IS* 400A service, single phase 120/240V.
One block feeds the house which has it's own 100A Main breaker.
The other block feeds the garage and the barn. Each of them have their own 100A main breakers. The smaller sheds are fed off the garage's or the barn's breaker boxes.
One exception, there is an old shed tapped into the triplex on a support pole between the main pole and the barn. That still has an old 60A fuse box. All I use in there are a few lights, so I see no reason to change it. I did change the boxes in both the barn and the garage, and rewired those buildings. They had fuse boxes with really crappy wiring when I moved here.
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