I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt.
My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for a few hours when the load could take it.
Assume that the main breaker is off.
I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2 extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits.
But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect
If you do this, and I sincerely hope you will not, make darn sure all the
240v breakers are off. In fact, make sure all the breakers are off.
If I were going to do it, and I wouldn't do it, I would cut the cable to the water heater, put a 120v plug and outlet on it. Then it is a simple matter to run the heater off an extension cord. Or, if you are really crazy, plug it into a backfed 120v outlet and run it that way. Make sure you use a 30a plug and outlet; although it won't draw that much on 120v, it will on 240v. I suppose it would be better to use a 240v plug and outlet, and make a converter with a 240v outlet and a 120v plug, though it is so foolish it really doesn't matter. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Besides, I doubt the heater will get hot enough to work. I have a 240v baseboard heater wired to 120v. It is fine for late spring and early fall when I use it, but it barely warms up.
Please don't run your A/C off the generator at night. If my neighbor did that... well, I hope he doesn't. It is one thing to run a furnace or refrigerator, but an A/C?!
There is no point in feeding the panel with a piddly little 3Kw generator. Use extension cords to the devices. He's going to have to juggle the loads anyway.
I'd use a 240V plug, and a short adapter cord for use with the generator. [120V plug to 240V socket.] The 240V plug has to be wired adequately (probably #10) for full line current, the adapter and extension cord need only be beefy enough for half the HWT's amp rating (14 or 12ga if long).
This is a code violation tho without very careful attention to wire types (even then, but never mind).
But don't do this - see below for a simpler and less expensive alternative.
120V to a 240V water heater works just fine. My inlaws had theirs wired that way by some idiot electrician. The drawback is that recovery time is _abysmally_ slow (4 times slower). You can imagine what a house with this problem and four women in it is like when it comes to showers.
Fixing that water heater recovery time went a long way towards them allowing me to marry their daughter ;-)
Don't do it, because it's tremendously wasteful, and when you're on a generator, it's a bad time to waste power.
It's more effective/useful to buy an 120V electric kettle (it'll cost less than the adapter cord alone and doesn't require screwing around with the HWT circuit or the inevitable code violations). Heats a lot faster too. Or use a propane stove.
[240V to a 120V water heater also works okay, for a couple of weeks, then the elements eventually fry.]
What kind of gen, a cheap unit will put out likely 100v at that load and not run what you want. 3000 is not enough, Buying a gen is not like buying a lawn mower
Your local power company will be very upsets with any home brew attempt to do this. I don't blame them. It has a tendency to kill workers.
You little generator is not going to do all you want it to do. The specs are generally greatly optimistic. If you want to run A/C get a real generator and have it properly installed.
What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business, IMO.
Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?
Why not heat water on a regular basis in wintertime with Honda's 6500 W water-cooled generator in an exhaust-depressurized plastic film room in the basement, with a CO detector? Item# 1676-1601 at NorthernTool.com. The description says "744.5dB@7.7yards" :-) Running 4.7 hours on 4.2 gallons of gas, it could make 4.7x6.5 = 31 kWh of electricity and 4.2x114K/3412-31 = 110 kWh of "waste heat." About 4'x2'x2', 309 pounds, with wheels.
Even a refrigerator. If it's cold inside at bedtime, it will still be cold in the morning, and neighbors can have a good night's sleep.
A furnace runs when everyone's windows are closed.
During a power failure, AC runs when most people will have their windows open, and at night they are trying to sleep.
Some food that thaws won't taste as good if it is refrozen and thawed again, but that doesn't mean it's inedible. And there is no need to refreeze it. One can keep it cold after it has thawed and eat a bunch of it each day (if there is a way to cook.) I'm pretty sure frozen dinners are all nuked these days, because when my refrigerator wouldn't get very cold (fan stuck) and the freezer wouldn't get below
40 for weeks, no frozen dinner spoiled. It took me about 30 days to eat them all.
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.
Play the troll if you like, but please don't make such irresponsible remarks. It could cost a life. As long as your wires are connected to their system they certainly do have a right to control what you do with those wires. If you don't believe me as you attorney.
If course you could offer to share your power with your neighbror(s) and invite them to store their perishables in your frig and sleep over in your air-conditioned home.
The 'assume' that the3 breaker is off, was for you guys in answering my question. For me, I AM DARN SURE!
On this thread I have learned the following:
"120V to a 240V water heater works just fine. My inlaws had theirs wired that way by some idiot electrician. The drawback is that recovery time is _abysmally_ slow (4 times slower). You can imagine what a house with this problem and four women in it is like when it comes to showers. "
In addition, if I timeshare the refridge with the water heater, and keep the 5,000 BTU A/C running, the 3,000 watt generator should suffice.
Longer run times, less noise, lighter, and OK for an EMERGENCY!
If you had seen the miles l----o------n------ g (no) gas lines after Wilma, you would understand my concern about using as little gas as possible.
We hope the main breaker is off. The house is not on the grid, but likely some poor work crew is trying their best to get it back on and they could face 120V where it should not be. It is for that very reason that the power companies and local authorities require a professional system to provide a fail safe system to prevent feedback into the grid. An excuse like you have no right to tell me what to do with the wiring in my home or I thought the main breaker was off, is not going to do much after an accident. It is also foolish since how you wire you home is governed by the electric code. You don't have the right to decide what to do with your own wiring.
Didn't we just do this same topic to death a few weeks ago?
Either use extension cords directly to the devices, or put in a proper transfer switch. Unless your mains have a place to do a padlock lockout, and you keep the key in your pocket, there is always the chance some fool will flip it with the generator on, and backfeed the grid. Even with the lockout, under certain circumstances of a failure in your wiring, the neutral bus could go hot all the way back to the (usually shared) can on the pole. Not likely, but possible, so it is stupid to take the chance when safer methods are available.
EMERGENCY!!! means an unforseen situation. You are obviously planning in advance, which is good, but it also means 'lack of the proper hardware' is not a good excuse. If you have the cash for the generator, you can also afford the hardware to connect it properly. These codes and standards of practices were developed for a reason- to protect utility workers, fire and rescue crews, and even you and your family. No, they can't prevent you from wiring your place like you want, but if/when they find out, they can also disconnect you from outside power till they are satisified you are playing by the rules.
He wants to be able to take a hot shower, even if it is only a very short one. Hard to do that with a teakettle. I can stand sponge baths for a day or three at most, personally- if I can't get a shower, or a warm-enough-to-jump-in lake/river by then, I get Real Cranky. That much, I do understand. Rather than screw around with hot-wiring an electric heater, if gas service was available, I'd put in a gas water heater.
Running all three at same time could overtax a cheap 3KW genny.
no.. you'll probably overload your wires and create other hazards.
As for the electric water heater.. I'm assuming this is single element 3500 to 4000 watt heater?? Using a 20amp.. 220/240v circuit? Does the heater have a cut off switch mounted in a nearby conduit box?
If answer is yes to all three.. and you have the tools and the wiring know how.. You''ll need...
a. 20amp three position(center off), dual throw, dual pole switch... ~$50 at electric supply store. (Not avail at Home Depot or Lowes.. ) b. 1/2 in. Straight NM Clamp Connector c. 8ft ..14/3 120v cord & plug ... note: 12/3 is better (but rare).. d. Yellow spade connectors for 120v cord.
Using a ohm meter, insure three position switch always breaks from one pole before making with the other pole.
Use standard wiring conventions. (crimping, grounding, securing.)
Rewire hot water heater wire to CENTER poles of 3pos DPDT switch.. (both of them) Feed both legs of house 220/240 to one set of switched poles. Connect both hot and neutral 120v cord using crimp terminals to opposite poles of 3pos DPDT switch. Reassemble.
Label (center) off, 120v and 240v positions of your new disconnect switch. Note: DPDT switches connect poles opposite of switch position.
Test your new setup. (Use several gals of hot water and then time utility meter spin rates for both voltages.)
Make a Insulating cover for plug, roll up cord and wait for the next big power outage. Connect to gen using shortest possible 12 or 14 Gauge 3 wire extension cord and set HW to 110v mode.
Disclaimer:... If you don't understand any of the listed instructions. You probably shouldn't attempt this mod.. Hire an electrican to do the work.
Water Heater has 2 4,000 watt elements, upper and lower.
AFAIK dual elements are energized one at a time.
If powering with 120 VAC, the power will be about 1,000 Watta.
With 1KW into 54 Gallons of water, there is not a high probability of boiling the tank.
Why wouldn't a pigtail 110 VAC receptacle wired across the lower element/thermostat be sufficient as a connect point if the main breaker and the WH breaker are both in the OFF position?
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.