Concrete Border Question

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There should not have been a problem. Any cement company will deliver the correct mix if you just tell them what it is for, ie foundation, driveway, sidewalk, etc. They have all the recipies.
Tom
Alan R Barr ( snipped-for-privacy@1066ad.fs.com) wrote:
: > > Hi, : > > We recently had a concrete border installed. They use one of those : > > border machines. We had this done about three weeks ago. The other day : > > we were working out in the yard and I dropped the wooden handle of the : > > shovel onto the border from a distance of two feet above. It left a : > > big 2cm deep, 1 inch wide0 or so dent in the border. We ignored it and : > > figured it was a air pocket or some other anomaly. About an hour or so : > > I was walking by and my foot brushed by a corner of the border and it : > > fell apart. I got down and started rubbing it with my hand and the : > > whole thing started to crumble apart in my hand. I went around to : > > several other parts of the border in the back yard and I took a : > > regular stick and using a regular stick, with surprisingly little : > > force I made a 2 inch deep mark simply by rubbing it. The whole border : > > is this loose where simply by brushing it with your foot it will start : > > to crumble apart. This is 3 weeks after it was poured. I went into the : > > front yard and it was hard as a rock. I spend several minutes hitting : > > it in various places with a screwdriver, and I didn't so much as leave : > > a scratch. I picked up a pebble size piece of the concrete from the : > > front yard that was excess and it was firm as a rock, I couldn't break : > > it apart. I went into the backyard, and picked up a similarly sized : > > piece of extra cement and it crumbled into dust in my hand. All the : > > borders in the backyard are that weak. : > > : > > So I called the guy who came back. He said, "Well, it looks like : > > the mix for the backyard possibly was not as good as the one for the : > > front yard." He then changed his view around, and rather then accept : > > responsibility he said it was our fault for disturbing it before the : > > required 4 week curing process was over. He only replaced the corner : > > which had fallen apart. Now, I am no expert and that is why I am : > > referring to this forum. In my mind however 3 weeks should be enough : > > time for a concrete border to cure, and even if it did require a full : > > 4 weeks, shouldn't by 3 weeks into it (under the hot 112 degree : > > Phoenix sun), it be hard enough not to crumble so easily? Our argument : > > was, well, if the front is solid as a rock, and they were both poured : > > on the same day, shouldn't the back be equally as strong? The guy is : > > not a licensed contractor (we checked after these problems happened) : > > so we can't take him to the board of contractors. He is an LLC. He : > > refused to replace the backyard borders besides the one corner citing : > > it wasn't his fault, it was all our fault. In my mind though, it is : > > not our fault if he mixed it wrong. : > > : > > So I wondered if anyone who knew this field of expertise could : > > give their opinion on the matter, and possibly refer me to some : > > concrete standards or something. What retaliation is there for : > > something like this? Is it really our fault even though we didn't do : > > anything to it? How strong should a cement border be? : > > : Well I reckon they were deliberately short on the Portland Cement, or "Dust" : as its nickname is here in the U.K, it should have been quite resistant to : "rubbing" after just a couple of days, of course to much water would have : caused the "Dust" to have not been evenly distributed throughout the Mix, it : sort of settles out , and it takes about 6 months to cure completely, also : an occaisional wetting is advisable to ensure it does not dry too quickly in : the Sun when its able to withstand a "wetting" , I believe the mix should be : 1 part cement to 4 / 5 parts aggregate, thats the "stone and sand : mix"..assuming that that is whats used in the U.S as well, to little "Dust" : and it certainly will crumble and too much and it cracks which it also does : if it drys to quickly before the chemical reaction can be completed,,,much : like mixing a Christmas cake I suppose, it has to be just right !.....cant : comment on what resource to law you have of course......
: Alan
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If the border was $750.00 or more turn him into the ROC as an unlicensed contractor. He will have to stop doing business until he gets his license.
I took a guy to small claims court in Maricopa County for selling me a faulty piece of equipment. The process was easy and I was awarded a reasonable judgment which I was able to collect. Have him served by a process server $30-$40. This costs a little more than a registered letter but I think the effect is a lot better. Anything you can do to get under the guys skin is worth a few extra bucks---imho. I was also awarded the cost of the process server!
Good luck,
AZCRAIG
www.azcraig.us
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I recommend finding a knowledgeable and well-respected concrete business in your area and have them come out and have them put in writing their findings. This will help if you do decide to take legal actions. As well with showing the contractor that did the work that you got a second opinion.
Regards,
Mark

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Thanks for your posts everyone! I am afraid as has been suggested that if I have another contractor come out and give us an estimate, and we take that estimate listing the problems to small claims court, the defendant could argue that it was not valid, that of course the contractor will say it is a bad job and needs to be replaced, because the contractor has a financial interest, and they want the job and the money for replacing it. What would the court's potential response to a statement such as this be? Am I overthinking this perhaps? Do we need rock solid evidence, and if so would this be considered such?
Thanks a ton everyone for all your help and responses! - snipped-for-privacy@aol.com --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Anteater wrote: <snip>

Yes. Among other things.
<MASSIVE snip>
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dadiOH's dandies v3.0... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico ____________________________
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Hi, Thanks again for all your help! I wondered if there was any chance of having it removed and replaced (as we are on a very tight schedule), then filing a lawsuit for how much that costs. This way we know exactly what we need to get and we meet our deadlines. Would this weaken our case any because then the original border in question would not exist?
Thanks, - snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

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In small claims court you generally just have to bring "proof" and be more convincing, ie rock solid proof is not always necessary. No pun intended.

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Penny Wise, Pound Foolish. Your own greed got the better part of you. Next time you'll know why you're paying more for a licensed contractor.

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