Compact Fluorescent light bulbs?

[maradcliff]

I have been using them for several years. They do save power. The light output from most of the newer ones is very good. The older ones was not. Two disadvantages. 1. They start out dim and get bright after a minute. That can be annoying when you run into a room to find your keys and can not see well at first. 2. In very cold weather they dont always work right, they flicker and sometimes never get real bright. In the house they are fine, but in the garage, I tend to swap half of them with standard bulbs in the coldest months of the year.

One other thing. I have not had real good life from the GE brand. They burn out way too fast. The other brands have been fine. I'd avoid GE.

PS. I have one in my barn that is on 24/7. It uses 9 watts. Just a dim light for my horses to see where they are at night. That uses 216 watts per day, which figures to about 20 cents a week. If that was a standard 40W bulb. I'd be using 960 watts per day, which would cost about 85 cents a week. (one of these days I am going to put a light sensor on that thing so it turns off during the day). So far that light has burned 24/7 for one and a half years with no problems. I used to use those "under the kitchen counter" 20 inch florescent fixtures in the barn. They too would burn 24/7. They used double the wattage, and the bulbs burned out yearly, not to mention these bulbs cost considerably more, and the fixtures filled up with bugs.

Mark

[Michael Daly]

You can get dimmable CFLs at many big box reno stores like Home Depot.

Mike

[Michael Daly]

You can get different colour CFLs from a single manufacturer. Basically, some give you the choice of whether you want a colder or warmer colour. Philips, for example, sells soft white and daylight versions.

You can also get instant-on, dimmable, pot light replacements and others. Some electronic ballast versions can handle temperatures down to -29C and are suitable for outdoor use.

There are many types and different features available. If you're close to a few big box reno stores, a visit and some reading of the fine print on the packaging can tell you a lot. Google as well.

Mike

[nicksanspam]

You mean 9 watts of power x 24 hours = 216 Wh, ie 0.216 kWh of energy.

A motion detector with incandescent bulbs might use less energy.

Nick

[maradcliff]

YES. And at around 12 cents / KWH thats roughly 12 cents every 4 days, or about 20 cents a week.

That would totally drive the horses bonkers, and the light would still go on during the day because it's not real bright in the barn.

What I need is a photocell, but it MUST be outside to work. I already tried a screw in (the socket) type, it never shut off, too dark in the barn. Thats why I have not installed it yet, I will have to route a cable outdoors, put a box and the sensor. Not too complicated, but my sliding doors are in the way, so it will have to go to the opposite side of the barn, so by the time I finish, I will have used at least

50ft of cable.

[louie]

I think they're TCP. They are the spiral tube type. Sold in a 6-pack at that "Walmart of home improvement stores" ... Home Depot. I've not noticed any need for the bulb to warm up when first turned on - seems to be almost instantaneous. I'm sold on it. I'll be changing every bulb in the overhead lighting to these except, as I mentioned any specialty bulbs like vanity lighting and decorative bulbs.

[nicksanspam]

It doesn't bother ours. Then again, they are used to low-flying airplanes.

You might look into X10 motion detector fixtures. Ours can send a signal at dawn and dusk. Perhaps some gadget can integrate that to inhibit an indoor X10 light during the day.

Nick

[Doug Kanter]

That last sentence if dubious, although well intended. Intermatic makes a digital timer which uses a small relay to actually switch the light. The package says it's OK to use with compact fluorescent bulbs, but I had 3 of these timers go bad on me. The company said the relay was just too small for

[mm]

Thanks. I didn't know about the triac stuff etc. I guess I've never had one.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.

[k]

There is one other thing to be aware of. Equivalent CF bulbs are quite a bit longer than their incandescent equivalents. This makes them impractical for wall sconces, because the tip of the bulp pokes out through the top (or bottom) of the sconces. Other than that, they work well.

Call your electric company. The last time our power company had a sale on them, they cost a dollar apiece, and if you bought ten of a given wattage they tossed in two extras. I haven't tried any outside yet, but I'll give it a shot the next time a bulb goes. I did try one in a motion light once, and it flickered like a candle and never acheived full brightness.

[TKM]

In my experience, they work very well and are much improved compared to 3-5 years ago. Buy the "Energy Star" labeled versions. Those types have gone through an evaluation process to make sure that they meet life, light output and color standards.

Look at the lighting fixtures at

for some ideas about new lighting fixtures that are designed to use CFLs.

TKM

[TKM]

In my experience, they work very well and are much improved compared to 3-5 years ago. Buy the "Energy Star" labeled versions. Those types have gone through an evaluation process to make sure that they meet life, light output and color standards.

Look at the lighting fixtures at

for some ideas about new lighting fixtures that are designed to use CFLs.

TKM

[jdk]

i found that topbulb.com has a nice supply and varieties, at least a year ago. they have a high kelvin rating for natural or white light(which i prefer, i do not like the yellow light).

[Michael Daly]

Interesting - but the designs can't use the screw-in CFLs (which are easy to find in stores) but must use pin-type CFLs which are a tad harder to find.

I guess they are trying to prevent folks from buying the fixtures and then screwing in a standard incandescent bulb.

Mike

[TKM]

That's right. If you install a light fixture designed only for CFLs, then it should not accept lamps with screw bases since then incandescent lamps could be substituted and the fixture may not be designed to safely take the higher heat.

Also, some electric utilities pay rebates for installing energy-efficient CFL fixtures. They typically won't rebate a fixture that can be retrofitted with incandescent bulbs.

Energy Star approved CFL fixtures require that the proper CFL lamp now be packed with the fixture. Maybe by the time that lamp burns out, (typically

10,000 hours) pin-base CFLs will be easier to find.

TKM

[Michael Daly]

I know that you can get almost any pin-type CFL (including some really bright ones like equivalent to 150W incandescent) at electrical suppliers (those that usually deal with contractors and large-building maintenance companies). But it's a lot easier to deal with the more common big-box reno stores.

It's about time that we can get fixtures specifically designed for CFLs. I've been annoyed for years that many standard fixtures don't fit the screw-in CFLs very well - they either assume the base is small close to the threaded part and don't clear the ballast or don't provide clearance for taller CFLs.

Mike

[Tim Killian]

I just replaced one of those "7-year" CFL bulbs (44W). It failed after only 18 months, but what the heck, I only paid $2 for it at one of HD's sidewalk sales. Out of curiosity, I pulled the base apart to see what the Chinese put into these things. There were eight, hand-soldered wires from the four tubes that ended on a round electronic ballast circuit board. The board has four coils/transformers, nine capacitors, a few resistors, and two transistors. All of the components were average quality, and I can see now why these ballasts fail at high temperatures. These parts were never intended for use at extreme temperatures, and even a little moisture from condensation would short something out if the lamp were started cold.

It would make sense to put more money into the quality of the ballast electronics and use pin-type, replaceable lamps instead of the throw-away crappola currently used in the screw-base CFL bulbs.

[Michael Daly]

Absolutely true, but a tad pricey if all you want is to replace the bulb in a lamp. If you are remodeling a house/room, doing it with pin type certainly makes sense.

Mike

[Tim Killian]

Another issue I see with the screw-in CFLs is the way heat is dissipated. As long as the bulb is above the base, heat from the ballast circuit board will rise up and away from the components. Mounted in any other position, heat will soak the circuit board and could cause to premature failure. The circuit board I took out had one, large electrolytic capacitor mounted on long leads to put it toward the base end of the lamp. These capacitors tend to dry out and become useless if they're exposed to heat, and that's probably why the Chinese tried to locate it away from the other components on the board. Overall, quite a kludge -- I'm surprised UL approves these things.

[Gideon]

Brands matter a lot, both in terms of actual lumen output and in terms of bulb life. Lights of America is the biggest offender, at least based upon my direct experiences, those of friends, and the testers at Consumers' Union (ie, Consumer Reports).

The folks at LOA are aware that the word is getting out about the poor quality of their products, so they have resorted to marketing many of their products under pseudonyms. Check the back of the package on many low cost off-brands and you are likely to read that the manufacturer is actually LOA.

All brands of bulbs start off dim & yellow, especially in cold applications such as garages or outdoors. But I've been extremely happy with them once they warm up.

We buy the 60w and 100w equivalents at Sam's Club in 6 packs, and we purchase the bigger, 200w equivalents at Walmart. We've got some of the extremely low power lights and I believe those were bought at Sam's Club in 3 packs.

I believe that the most recent 6 packs of 100w equivalents that we purchased at Sam's Club cost $15.50, give or take a few cents. I'm also fairly certain that the 200w equivalents are $8.88 each at Walmart.

Unfortunately, the purchase price per watt tends to be disproportionately high for both the low output lights and the high output lights. For many of our table lamps we have been able to install one or more "Y" adapters so that we can install multiple 100w equivalent bulbs.

Full spectrum bulbs are also more expensive at all output levels, but some folks that I know feel that the natural light is worth the extra cost. The bulbs are reported to be very effective in treating season depression in some people, but I've also heard that large doses of vitamin D are equally effective.

In addition to the savings in direct energy consumption, there are other advantages to the CFs. One is the fact that they produce a lot less heat, which is important for those of us who run the AC much of the year.

Another advantage is the fact that lamp sockets and wiring last a lot longer since the fixture is carrying about 75% less current.

One warning: The CFs emit a considerable amount of stray RF noise, so nearby electronics such as radios may be negatively impacted. I don't have a wireless LAN setup, but I would imagine that CFs could cause interference for some folks' wireless Internet systems at home.

Good luck, Gideon

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BE wrote Yes, that's a good question. Do brands matter? Westinghouse, Panasonic, Sylvania, TCP etc.?