Compact Fluorescent Lamps Burn Out Faster Than Expected, Limiting Energy Savings in California's Efficiency Program

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Joe wrote:

One thing to keep in mind:
On average, replacing incandescents with CFLs actually reduces mercury pollution. This is because CFL-decreasable coal burning puts more mercury into the environment than the CFLs used to replace such incandescents in question have.
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 06:13:19 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

coal generating station puts out less mercury than is used in a CFL bulb if it only lasts for 100 hours.
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My experience is on average around 4,000 hours. This includes ones that get some extra heating by being in an enclosed fixture. (I only use 13 watt ones there to keep the extra heating down.)
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:20:13 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

using the bulbs made for the specific use (in this case PAR type reflector floods in pot-lights)
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I'm not sure why some people seem to have such poor luck with CFLs, I've been using them at multiple locations for a decade and I've not had any premature failures at all.
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On 01/25/2011 09:22 PM, Pete C. wrote:

same here. I have actually found one place where they are the ONLY thing that will last - a sandblast cabinet. Even "rough service" bulbs would generally only last one job. CFL works great.
I was just in Lowe's today and saw that they now sell Lutron dimmers specifically marketed for CFLs. Maybe someday when curiosity gets the better of me I will buy one and see if it will overcome my objections to the "dimmable" (note quotes) CFLs that I've tried.
Only other quibbles I have with CFLs are the long startup time for the "globe" type used for bathroom fixtures with exposed "bulbs" (but I still use 'em) and the unavailability of 3-way CFLs in greater than 150W equivalent (this one is annoying as 250W or higher incandescent 3-ways are still available, and honestly, aren't 3-ways nearly always used in table lamps that are sometimes used for reading light?) For 90% of my bulb replacement needs though I find them quite adequate.
nate
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Pot lights are heat hellholes. CFLs easily overheat in those. Try a different brand, a brand overtly rated in writing for such use, one with a specific and high maximum ambient temperature rating, or a lower wattage.
One thing commercial buildings often have for recessed ceiling fixtures with CFLs: Fixtures with separate ballasts, and the fixtures take ballastless pin-base CFLs, often 13W twintube or 26W doubletwintube.
NOTE - 13W twintube and 26W doubletwintube usually come in 2-pin form with built-in glow switch starters. These CFLs suffer more wear from starting than others.
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On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:48:57 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

type bulbs are supposed to be made for this same type of service. It says on the bulb "not for use with dimmers or in totally enclosed recessed fixtures"
These are not totally enclosed - and if the slowness in lighting is due to "warm-up" these things should light FASTER, not slower.
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wrote:

One question what is the wattage of these CFLs?
Also, I do see "PAR" CFLs that appear to me not up to working OK in the "heat hellholes" they appear to be made for. I see ones either lacking a written statement that they are OK there, or having being OK there qualified by a specific ambient temperature limit that sounds to me easy to exceed in "heat hellhole" recessed ceilingt fixtures.
If the fixtures are open at the bottom, CFLs can still easily overheat in them. Hot air likes to move upward. In an open-at-the-bottom recessed ceiling fixture, the hot air won't move much - so the lightbulb in such a fixture easily bakes up the temperature of the air in the fixture.
As for heat confinement speeding up warmup: My experience is that this does not increase rate of warmup, so much as increasing how much the warmup progresses (such as past optimum temperature). Do please keep in mind that "PAR" CFLs tend to be ones with outer bulbs, and those tend to start dimmer and need more warmup time than CFLs without outer bulbs.
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 04:25:32 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

I thought I had stated they are 15 watt units After an hour of use they are not uncomfortable to remove, but the socket end is getting uncomfortable to hold.

is 117F after an hour of on-time. It stabilizes there.

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On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:50:56 -0800, Smitty Two

carpe diem manana.
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Well, I have been using CFL's for 20 years. Not exclusively, but now they are dirt cheap. Some burn out right away, and I hate Feit brand.. They have more parts and have more problems. They burn out quicker the more you turn them on and off.
I got lights constantly on in the house. I got CFL's and LED's. I got LED's all over outside. I'm going to do some updating, and found the new CREE with high output. I always use the CREE warm white when possible. I cannot stand blue light. Blue light is harsh and scatters too much. I saw the new LED style but have not come across it yet. The new LED light is almost like a CFL. Its got a large outer bulb with florescent material. Inside are a number of UV LED's which illuminate the outer bulb.
Here is the new CREE dulux and you can easily get 900 Lumen s or more..... http://ledsupply.com/creexpg-ww315.php
greg
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Oh yes, it could also be said, LED's burn out quicker than expected. When they are run too hot they will go bad. How many LED's do you see out on bus tail lights. The sun generates huge amounts of heat damaging them.
greg
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zek wrote:
<SNIP previously quoted material>

So far, I am not seeing noticeably faded LEDs on buses or in traffic lights. However, white ones have a phosphor fading issue. Also, LED lighting units usually get more watts per square inch of exposed surface than LED automotive taillights and LED traffic lights.
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Heh. I have 6 CFL BR-40's here in my home office. I did some research and thought the FEITs sounded good. Those bastards all burned out.

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If they can bring the cost down then I am on board in a heartbeat. The CFL's have proven to be a lot of hype but very little on delivery. They are touted to last much longer but my experince thus far has proven that claim to be a total lie. If anything, the life span for the CFL's have thus far been about 10%-15% shorter than incadecents but cost 4 times as much. If they are saving anything on usage it is more than offset by the cost of purchase and replacement. As for the LED's, I am not about to pay 10 times more for them only to see the same results.
Sign me SOLD because I have replaced nearly every light in the house with CFL's and SCREWED because I feel like I was the one screwed in instead of the lightbulb.
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I haven't been writing the dates on them but since I have only been in this house for 5 years and I replaced almost all the bulbs right after I moved in, I know how many I have had to replace one or more times since and it doesn't same much for the life expectancy of CFL's. The ONLY ones I haven't replaced yet are in lights that don't get used but once or twice a year. The light that are used all the time, and all the time means daily but not left on all day, are having to be replaced at least once a year. On the other hand, I have several old flood lights that are on dimmer circuits that were there when we bought the house that are used daily.
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In my experience, a CFL will last 1 1/2 years outside in terrible conditions, IF you leave it on continuously like I did. I love not having to change inside or out lamps so often, and I enjoy the savings.
I'm using these cheap DC to DC converters on my LED's. Big trouble, I have to go around and figure on what kind of filter I need to add on about10. My house is a giant transmitter. My FM radio reception is horrible. I got carrier buzz all over the spectrum. I just found this out recently while driving my car.
greg
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On 1/21/2011 9:20 AM zek spake thus:

What on earth are you talking about?
DC-to-DC converters? Why? Do you run your house on 12 volt batteries?
And are your radio reception problems due to RFI from your inverters? It must be *really* bad if you're getting interference on FM!
I'm curious about your situation.
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Try this again since OGGLE screwd up again. I get about 12000 hours from a CFL left constantly on outside, and that includes summertime very high heat inside a closed bell. The more you turn them on the faster they will go bad. I have had some go bad at the very beginning. There are so many manufacturers its hard to stay with old reliable.
I got a big problem with my LED's, my house transmits for a block. My FM reception is horrible. I need to install many filters on the DC current converters.
greg
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