Compact Fluorescent Lamps Burn Out Faster Than Expected, Limiting Energy Savings in California's Efficiency Program

[Molly Brown]

[Joe]

Can't help but wonder how many Left Coasters are hoarding incandescent light bulbs. And why is the lamestream media ignoring the mercury content of the fluorescents? Typical of social engineering solutions, solve one problem and create two or more that are worse.

Joe

[Mark]

and this part was noteworthy

"Anxious to see what ratepayers got for their money, state utility regulators have devoted millions of dollars in the past three years for evaluation reports and field studies."

Mark

[HeyBub]

Possibly because we've been using florescent lightbulbs for over 100 years without any controversy over Mercury.

Actually, the use of CFLs actually REDUCES Mercury contamination (in general). The extra power required to generate the difference between incandescent and CFLs means more coal has to be burnt. The Mercury generated by burning the extra coal is greater than that in the CFLs.

[zek]

Well, I have been using CFL's for 20 years. Not exclusively, but now they are dirt cheap. Some burn out right away, and I hate Feit brand.. They have more parts and have more problems. They burn out quicker the more you turn them on and off.

I got lights constantly on in the house. I got CFL's and LED's. I got LED's all over outside. I'm going to do some updating, and found the new CREE with high output. I always use the CREE warm white when possible. I cannot stand blue light. Blue light is harsh and scatters too much. I saw the new LED style but have not come across it yet. The new LED light is almost like a CFL. Its got a large outer bulb with florescent material. Inside are a number of UV LED's which illuminate the outer bulb.

Here is the new CREE dulux and you can easily get 900 Lumen s or more.....

greg

[zek]

Oh yes, it could also be said, LED's burn out quicker than expected. When they are run too hot they will go bad. How many LED's do you see out on bus tail lights. The sun generates huge amounts of heat damaging them.

greg

[BobR]

If they can bring the cost down then I am on board in a heartbeat. The CFL's have proven to be a lot of hype but very little on delivery. They are touted to last much longer but my experince thus far has proven that claim to be a total lie. If anything, the life span for the CFL's have thus far been about 10%-15% shorter than incadecents but cost 4 times as much. If they are saving anything on usage it is more than offset by the cost of purchase and replacement. As for the LED's, I am not about to pay 10 times more for them only to see the same results.

Sign me SOLD because I have replaced nearly every light in the house with CFL's and SCREWED because I feel like I was the one screwed in instead of the lightbulb.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 1/20/2011 10:19 AM HeyBub spake thus:

Well, that's Don Klipstein's argument, which I sorta buy since he made it and not you.

But that still begs the question of what really happens to all that mercury from old CFLs. Believe me, I see busted twirly bulbs all over the place. And just because we've had a totally blasé attitude toward busted regular fluorescent tubes and the resulting release of mercury doesn't mean that nothing bad ever came of it.

Can you say "cumulative toxin"?

(And just curious: why did you capitalize Mercury? You're not of German descent, are you?)

[Frank]

What annoys me as a chemist is the general public thinks mercury in all forms is toxic. If so, we'd all be dead from the mercury we handled as kids or the fillings in our teeth or the Mercurochrome we used to use on cuts.

[HeyBub]

Don't think so. If we've made the collective decision to live with the hazards of coal-fired power plants, any overall reduction in the amount of you-know-what has to be a plus. Most would consider a process to convert 90% the mercury from a power plant into Fulminate of Mercury and scatter it around the streets of Detroit to be meritorious.

Yes, but not five times real fast.

I also capitalized Oxygen, Hydrogen, and Cobalt-thorium-G because I was taught in an earlier time to capitalize primary elements. Times have, however, changed along with the rules for capitalization.

Thanks for pointing out my eccentricity and causing me to check. I'll refrain from it in future so as not to horrify those who are a product of a more recent education.

[Jeff Thies]

Which relates directly to how dangerous the mercury is from a broken bulb.

What airborne mercury there is dissipates rapidly, there being no long term chronic exposure to mercury. Even so, much remains bound up in the fragments. Don't vacuum.

My general impression is that mercury content of CFLs is falling. NVision (HD) claims 2.2mg to 3.3mg. I imagine others are following suit.

Jeff

[dgk]

That really changed?

I remember when the lower case G changed. I learned it with a straight line going down and then it changed to a curly line. Or maybe it was the other way? Well, no one writes anymore so I guess it makes no difference, but it puzzled me at the time.

I think Oxygen deserves to be upper case though. While most elements are critical for something (Carbon comes to mind), where would we be without good old Oxygen? That makes it more important than most things that get the Honor of capitalization.

As for CFLs, my anecdotal evidence is that they do not last as long as advertised. I did just read a big article in the newspaper about needing to recycle CFLs, so the attempt to get the word out is working. There was also a whole section on how to clean up after a broken bulb. That thing was so scary that, in spite of being a good old lefty, I want to run out and hoard some incandescents. It began with "open the windows and leave the room for 5-10 minutes, taking any pets with you. Turn off central heat or A/C".

Here, it was obviously referring to this from the EPA:

I mean really, do I want these things in my house?

[zek]

In my experience, a CFL will last 1 1/2 years outside in terrible conditions, IF you leave it on continuously like I did. I love not having to change inside or out lamps so often, and I enjoy the savings.

I'm using these cheap DC to DC converters on my LED's. Big trouble, I have to go around and figure on what kind of filter I need to add on about10. My house is a giant transmitter. My FM radio reception is horrible. I got carrier buzz all over the spectrum. I just found this out recently while driving my car.

greg

[zek]

Try this again since OGGLE screwd up again. I get about 12000 hours from a CFL left constantly on outside, and that includes summertime very high heat inside a closed bell. The more you turn them on the faster they will go bad. I have had some go bad at the very beginning. There are so many manufacturers its hard to stay with old reliable.

I got a big problem with my LED's, my house transmits for a block. My FM reception is horrible. I need to install many filters on the DC current converters.

greg

[zek]

I wanted to add, I have maybe 3 in the house I leave on all the time. Partly for my kittys, and partly, it saves flicking the switch.

My LED's inside are on all the time, and are attached to a battery backup. There are some in bathroom and kitchen under cabinet. Will add some more when I finish basement.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,

I bought half dozen LED bulbs a year ago for testing. One inside garage, one outside on a patio light pole, one in my study/ One outside did not last long, a few moonths, one in the garage there after.

3rd one is still working. In our area street lights in new neighborhood is all LED lighting some with solar panel.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 1/21/2011 9:20 AM zek spake thus:

What on earth are you talking about?

DC-to-DC converters? Why? Do you run your house on 12 volt batteries?

And are your radio reception problems due to RFI from your inverters? It must be *really* bad if you're getting interference on FM!

I'm curious about your situation.

[zek]

I count 14 I have around the house. I run the interiors at 50-100 milliwatt and they will last a looong time. I'm pushing at 3 watts two to spot my trees. People will start to get smart and light only the area they want lit. With lens is easy. Its not usually necessary to light the whole room.

[krw]

>>

Don't need one. LEDs ARE AC to DC converters. The problem is dimming them cheaply.

LEDs *ARE* diodes. Another diode in series does nothing except waste power. A diode bridge around them, making it full-wave DC, is a good idea, however.

[krw]

I looked at the specs (more digging to do), but it's *not* cheap ($2 in reels of 2K from DigiKey, so perhaps $1.50 in the real world). All the crap that goes around it is another buck, perhaps. Uplift that to retail and it's more like $5-$10.

It also dumps 10-20% as heat. CFLs already run hot, so...

It is quite interesting, though. Thanks.