Compact Florescents burn out at the same time

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Has anyone noticed that Compact Florescent bulbs burn out at the same time? The first time I thought it was a coincidense, but it just happened again. The last time I had 2 of them in a kitchen ceiling fixture. I installed both at the same time, same fixture, on the same switch. One bulb burned out, a few days later the other one did. (these were the ones that stick straight out of the base)
Now, it's the bathroom. The bathroom has one switch that controls two identical wall mounted fixtures on each side of the mirror. About 10 days ago I turned on the bathroom lights and one of the CF bulbs went up in smoke (literally). There was a shower of sparks in the base of the bulb, and a puff of smoke, which ended the bulb. I replaced that one with a standard bulb. Today I went in the bathroom, flipped on the lights and the other CF bulb started flashing on an off and seconds later it got real dim and then died. (these were the twisted type, and both were installed at the same time).
This is more than coincidense.
Note: There is nothing wrong with the wiring, switch or fixtures.
I am going back to standard bulbs though. The CF bulbs do not have anywhere near the life they state, in fact standard bulbs seem to last much longer. For the price of these CF bulbs and their short lives, I dont think I am saving any money. Sure they use about 60% less power, but they cost ten times as much as regular bulbs. Besides that, after watching that one go up in smoke, I think they are a fire hazzard.
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I talked with a guy in a large department store replacing flourescent bulbs about the 1-2 problem. He said a failing bulb also extinguished the good bulb but his procedure was to rather than try to find the bad bulb to simply replace them both as they are cheap and aged at the same rate so that the "good" bulb was nearly aged out anyway.

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I understand that many facilities with a large number of lighting fixtures (whether fluorescent or incandescent) will figure out a schedule according to which they simply replace all the bulbs/tubes at once rather than have to keep coming back and replace one or two here and there. Costs less in the long run.
Perce
On 07/26/05 01:47 am Blue tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

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Yep, when I worked in an office once, they had a service come out and change all the bulbs all in the overhead lights. They did this on a periodic basis. The workers had stilts so they could reach the lights without ladders.
Helped keep the place nice and bright as well.
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On 7/26/2005 8:06 AM or thereabouts, Percival P. Cassidy appears, somewhat unbelievably, to have opined:

True. Having worked in retail for over 20 years I have seen this several times. The firm I work for used to use a service that traveled all over the U. S. They would come around about every 3 years and change out every fluorescent tube in the building using scissor lifts. They worked overnight and would take a couple of days to finish a store. I remember talking with some of the crew members. One of them told me he got a lot of funny reactions from people when he replied to their question of "What do you do for a living?" with "I change light bulbs."
We now use a different firm which comes around once a month and replaces only the tubes that are out at that time.
--
As a child, my parents thought I was an idiot-savant.
Now, however, it is rather clear that I\'m simply an idiot.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:06:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

I refuse to relamp.
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iQA/AwUBQuc8PAIk7T39FC4ZEQJqDQCdFKpfqcK3DbGTBb6QOvfzOXGGg5sAmwYZ S9x9S0hxgy4Nu3yRY47LDrDk =wrRQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
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Blue wrote:

Apples and oranges....
That guy was probably referring to lamps in fixtures where two bulbs are fed by one ballast. That's not the case with the kind of CFs you describe.
There is no technical reason I can think of relating to the bulbs themselves which would explain why two CFs fail "about the same time" other than excellent design life calculations and manufacture with identical molecules in the same places in all the components of the bulbs. <G>
But, possibly the second CF in the event you described was damaged by an inductive spike caused by the first bulb arcing across the line. That's more of a cause and effect relating to the type of failure of the first bulb than it would be a design life factor.
Your "short life" problems are likely due to poor quality bulbs or something strange about your home's power, like frequent spikes and surges. I've been using about 15 CFs for over 5 years in various spots in our home, including in the outside lamps straddling our front door, and haven't lost one yet.
Jeff
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Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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Jeff Wisnia wrote:

That makes sense. It would also make sense to replace all the CF's that are in the same fixture and have had the same usage as the ones that still work are likely close to the end of their life and are likely now not as bright as when new.

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Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
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This is mainly for 2-foot and longer fluorescents, as well as some ballastless compact fluorescents in 2-bulb fixtures that have separate 2-bulb ballasts somewhere in the fixture (not the usual screw-base compact fluorescents).
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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<snippage>

Today I went in the bathroom, flipped on

Sure they use about 60% less power,

I don't know where you buy the bulbs, but ten times cost is way out of line. I pay more like 2 bucks per fluorescent when bot in four or six packs. The price differential between the local hardware store and Home Depot is about 3 to 4 times the cost. Are you buying on the corner store? I also am getting very long life from them, and am getting the same light output for about a third to a quarter of the wattage. Three or four years ago I replaced about 35-40 incandescents in and outside the house with CF, and only two or three have burned out, at different times, not together. I am convince that the burn-outs were premature due to bad qual. control in the earlier models. Either you have bought older stock, a bogus brand, or may have surges, moisture (bath) or other probs with your wiring or switch system. I think, at least from my experience, they are reliable and cheap for what they do.

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There was a recall of compact flourscent bulbs because of fire hazard. I suspect with the shower of sparks you had you had the bad bulbs.

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On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:01:55 GMT, "Art"

Could you please enlighten us about where this recall can be found. These bulbs are GE brand. So they are not some off the wall brand, even though they say (made in China).

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snipped-for-privacy@invalid.com wrote:

I know of one affecting one model known to be sold under 2 brands, and I guess not all production runs of that model.
Brands affected are "Commercial Electric" and "DuraBright". The model is a 3-way spiral with highest brightness claimed to be equal/comparable to 150 watts incandescent.
The link:
http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml05/05064.html
Please keep in mind that screw-in compact fluorescents equivalent to more than 60-75 watts incandescent often do not do well in small enclosed fixtures nor in downlights.
Other compact fluorescent stuff - the bad, the ugly and the mostly good:
My "compact fluorescent top page",
http://www.misty.com/~don/cfx.html
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:14:24 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Downlights?????? You mean when the top of the bulb is pointing toward the ground? That's odd because the ones that burned out pointed toward the ceiling and there are no enclosures at all. On the other hand, the ones in my garage are common porcelein fixtures like those in basements. Those have never burned out.

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I have three of them in a kitchen fixture. One of them burned out in a relatively short time period, replaced it and all OK for now. Got them from Home Depot, brought it back and got another one based on 7 yr. life warranty. I guess we both experienced the "infant mortality" syndrome. MLD
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Am I the only one who have had good luck with them?
I started using them 15 years ago and they are at or living beyond expected life. I have a mini spiral type in a porch fixture that I installed in the early spring of 04. It is left on continuously and has has not quit yet. I do avoid using them base up where the heat can reduce the life. I am also avoiding brands such as GE and Lights of America that seem to have a problem with lamp life. John
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snipped-for-privacy@invalid.com wrote:

The explanation may be heat. A significant heatwave has made the national news a little bit. Integral-ballast compact fluorescents, especially 15 watts or more, often have problems with ceiling fixtures and small enclosed fixtures and downlights. Philips SLS non-dimmable versions up to 20 watts are better, and their 23 watt non-dimmable version is also rated for use in recessed ceiling downlights.
Compact fluorescents do not take heat as well as incandescents, and produce more non-radiant heat than incandescents of same wattage (but at least normally less than incandescents of same light output). Compact fluorescents produce little infrared, so almost all energy failing to become visible light becomes heat in the fixture as opposed to a fair amount materializing in the same room but outside the fixture.

Maybe heat, maybe a line voltage surge from lightning damaging but not outright killing the bulbs (line voltage surge damage is more often but not necessarily either immediately fatal or negligible-zero).

I now see not-too-bad compact fluorescent bulbs for about $4-$5 apiece, great ones for about $8, and frequent promotional specials at home centers for ones at least "fair" amounting to $2 per bulb or less.
Power savings are more typically 65-70%, in good cases 75%.
Some compact fluorescents are bad and some situations do not call for them:
* Dollar store compact fluorescents in my somewhat major experience are lousy to outright rubbish. I buy them mainly to report on them. Complaints are many, including color, light output, light output in comparison to claims of light output, and a high rate of scary early failures.
* I have seen a bad run or two of 25 watt spirals, of both GE and Lights of America brands.
* Lights of America is a brand where I have had a disproportionate share of early failures and other disappointments, although their spirals made after 2001 may be as good as other brands of spirals.
* Compact fluorescents, especially of higher wattages and/or other than non-dimmable Philips SLS types up to 23 watts, often do not do well in small enclosed fixtures and downlights due to heat buildup. Most commercial/institutional buildings with compact fluorescent ceiling fixtures have different bulbs that do not include ballasts, and the ballasts are located in the fixture usually out of view.
* Fluorescents in general, and especially ones smaller and of lower wattage than 4-footers, tend to be uneconomical when on-time is short. Low duty cycle makes payback of energy savings longer, and frequent starts cause extra wear. Rated life is typically specified by the manufacturer to be typically achieved with 3 hours average runtime per start. I generally do not recommend compact fluorescents for motion sensor lights, closet lights, refrigerator lights, nor for bathroom lights that are mostly used for short trips.
Some more details in:
http://www.misty.com/~don/cfx.html
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote:

Thanks for the info
Lou
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On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:01:56 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Well, you might have a point about the heat. It got as hot as 130 in here last week. (No AC).
And they are GE brand as someone said, they have problems. Here I thought GE was a good name brand ????
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snipped-for-privacy@invalid.com wrote:

Good brand for locomotives, less so for cheaper stuff:-))
Lou
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