Anybody had any experience with the Nyle "cold climate heat pump"? This is
a standard, air-source heat pump that claims effective heating down to 0F.
Reading the blurb, it looks like it's just a two stage compressor system.
So I'd guess in their example, that what they're selling as a 3-ton unit
is something more like a 6-ton two stage which runs at 3+-tons until some
critical temperature (around 30F?) then kicks in the second stage for
extra output. Nothing revolutionary. But it does seem to get around the
standard complaint of normal heat pumps not being able to keep up with
load requirements at low temps.
The reason this caught my eye is that I'm looking at replacing a heat pump
in one of my rental properties and I'd like to put in something "eco
friendly". Geothermal is not an option, and I was planning on putting in a
high efficiency Carrier or Lennox HP or maybe a York Stealth. This Nyle
unit showed up as an added option but I'm a little loathe to get a unit
that nobody's ever heard of.
Maybe it's just me, but methinks it's a crock.
I don't care if you have a system with 6 compressors. You still only extract
'X' amount of heat from 0 degree air. Plus I don't see how they can claim
that it is "270% effiecient at 17 degrees".......
Heat pumps are measured several ways, but for heating, an interesting
number if the COP, or Coefficient of Performance. Heat pumps can provide 2
to 4 BTUs of heat for every BTU of electrical energy used:
It's not a perpetual motion claim, nor does it break any laws of
thermodynamics. A heat pump isn't creating heat from the electrical
energy, it is merely pumping it from one place to another.
Heat pumps, ANY heat pumps made in the last few years, can be more than 100%
...how much heat can you get for the same buck?
Higher the outdoor temps, the higher the percentage.
How well the outdoor coil can gather heat, and how well the indoor coil can
release it...the higher the percentage.
Ok...then you are familiar with why heat pumps require a 2nd stage of heat
You are also familiar with the use of an outdoor stat to keep the strips, or
whatever 2nd stage is from coming on if the temps outside are high
enough...I know you have seen us talk about it in the other group.
You might also recall some conversations about an outdoor stat that will
keep the heat pump OFF if the temps drop low enough, and only run the
the lower the temps, the lower the output of the unit....higher the temps,
the higher the output of the unit..
Coefficient of performance
Ok, I understand what the function is of the outside stats. I will look up
your references, just having major brain block. I can't get it through my
thick skull how running a heat pump at say 50 deg & extracting the heat out
of it can be more than 100% efficient. Let me do a little more research and
thinking so I get back on track. Am I confusing efficiency with COP?
How can you cool the home with 90 degree outside air? Same thing, only
It is confusing! But as long as the money spent to get heat through a heat
pump is less per BTU than any other energy source what differance does it
A heat pump will produce heat into very low temps, most will still see some
heat even as low as 50F. The problem arises when the cost to get this heat
costs more than electric resistance heat, of fossil fuel. Also it is much
harder, more costly, to recover this heat as the outdoor air temps fall.
You call yourself an HVAC expert but don't even have the foggiest clue
how a heat pump works even after it has been explained to you????
Kind of like an electrician thinking that a circuit breaker resetting
is magic or a plumber scratching his head at how water moves uphill in
I remember learning how a heat pump works back in Freshman
physics... no rocket science, just an air conditioner in reverse!
Maybe instead of filling the newsgroup with so much useless drivel and
venom, you should just slink away and learn something before talking
You are not only a 1st degree troll, but a quack as well . God help
the poor soul who pays you to do their HVAC work. Maybe in Louisiana
you just need a pulse to get an HVAC license... (and even then you
probably had to cheat on the exam)
The real design problem is not being able to keep up, but rather the
expense. The lower the design temperature the more expensive the unit and
not matter what unit you have, the greater the difference in temperature the
less efficient it will run.
The standard units available with electric resistance heating supplement
are going to be the best and cheapest (which means eco friendly) over all
cost almost all the time.
Its BS...and its not a 6 ton with a dual stage comp....its a dual stage comp
alright, but the capacity is not even close to 4 tons.
You can only get a COP of so much...once that is passed, you WILL have a
form of secondary heat needed....period.
If you are looking at the Stealth, (soon to be discontinued) You might want
to spend the extra $200 and get an Affinity by York.
Lennox parts are impossible to get and Carrier designs are not static.
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:01:15 -0500, "Steve@carolinabreezehvac"
Seems I recall some years back reading about a heat pump with a small
gas burner in the outdoor unit which added just enough heat to prevent
the coil from freezing in subzero temps.
I wonder whatever happened to those?
Liberals are thieves and dictators, unlike
conservatives who are dictators and thieves.
York used to have a nat gas powered heat pump...it had a Briggs and Stratton
engine that powered the compressor and the heat generated by the engine was
removed by the refrigerant and sent back into the system..
Called the Triathlon...it was a failure due to several reasons...lack of
trained installers...lack of service by owners....it just didnt fly.
It would have been great had it been marketed right....
You can get ammonia units still, Arkel, that use a gas burner for AC and
heating....but unless you want a huge fuel bill, its best to simply go with
a gas furnace.
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