w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in nature. They may not mention this on thier labels. Some are dielectric when fresh, and become conductive as they oxidize.
rusty redcloud.
When did w_tom suggest tossing just any old grease into the switch? Everything that he said should make sense to anybody who is evenly marginally sentient.
=========================
Red Cloud lashed out: w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in nature. They may not mention this on thier labels. Some are dielectric when fresh, and become conductive as they oxidize.
rusty redcloud.
Where did he specify what grease to use? Is bear grease okay? Vaseline? bacon fat? Please tell me where he said anything other than just "grease", which could be a lot of different things, many of which would be very BAD to use.
How so? He essentially said to smear on a glob of any old grease you have laying around. He did not say to use a specific kind of grease or even what properties it should have.
Give your head a shake. You truly need it.
rusty redcloud
My post was about people who 'feel' rather than first learn facts. For some reason, Red Cloud has decided to use himself as a perfect example. He immediately 'feels' I was discussing dielectrics. Of course I was not. But then he knows because he 'feels' that is what I must have been thinking. So why does Red Cloud do this? Just another name and reason to insult others. His name?
Red Cloud® posted using numerous names including BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com, Ekal Bnek, MaximumSmoke, and Dubya snipped-for-privacy@groundfault.com. One poster even speculates that BinaryBill also posted using the name Ken Blake. He has been accused by Sirius, VWWall, Thor, etc of using pseudo names. In a discussion entitled "Computer Fire Starts Flame War" in alt.computer, others bluntly ask him (whoever he really is) what his alter egos would think. Previous posts by BinaryBill
- now Red Cloud® - of > w_tom is an idiot. Many types of grease are not dielectric in
Okay, then, w_tom, please show me, and everyone else, where you specified what type of grease should be used in a switch, and it's characteristics. You can't.
You have a very long and colorful history in usenet of posting lengthy technical answers that contain enough true information to make them seem believable, but then you go further and add stuff that is completely and scientifically unsupportable.
You have used this technique for years to post advice, which if followed, could easily cause injury or death. I'm far from being the only one to point this out. Due to the danger of your posts, I've collected a few over the years, including responses of other very knowlegeable and sane people showing why you are so dangerous. Shall I start posting a few of them?
So, where did you say what kind of grease to use? I'll be waiting, troll.
rusty redcloud
I suggest you open and look at a few switches, especially older ones that are designed to be repaired.
In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:39:37 GMT Red Cloud® < snipped-for-privacy@rustcloud.com posted:
Well, I'm sorry to have started something that led to a fight.
My understanding of wtom's first post was that it was just meant to contrdadict the poster before him who said that grease was bad. I don't think wtom recommended any specific good grease, but I also don't think he said any old grease would be all right.
And there was no need for wtom to suggest a grease, because 5 hours earlier in the same subthread, Joseph had suggested a conductive grease from the autoparts store.
Meirman
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 10:38:25 GMT "Joseph Meehan" posted:
True, but they're not. They're under the dash, below the glove compartement, with the resistors themselves in the air duct from the outside. I think that is to help cool the resistors, which in my GM cars were just wire coils suspended in air, with no non-conductor surrounding them.
LOL. I just said that!
Meirman
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 10:40:55 GMT "Joseph Meehan" posted:
Didn't know that. Good idea. That's another place I've seen grease, you remind me. Inside lamp sockets, those that face tghe outside, like turn signals.
Since that is not the usual case with these sockets, maybe the grease is added to lamp sockets when there is water present that the mechanic can't stop. ????
As to the heater switch, I did note during testing today that between speeds 1, 2, 3, and 4, it makes the connection with the next speed setting before it breaks the connection with the current one. Seems to me this should cut down arcing to zero or near zero. Except between off and speed one, which is the lowest speed using the least current. Of course the design must not be as good as I'm making it sound, or these things wouldn't be breaking all the time. (The model from my friend's van may be the more recent one, and maybe it doesn't fail like the old one did. Still, cars have had heater fans speed switches since 1950 and earlier, and one would think they'd have the bugs out by now. My car only has 76,000 miles.
I apologize but I may not have to regrease after all, and I won't if I don't have to because I don't want to open the switch more times than necessary, and break the metal tabs that hold the switch together.
I tested it today with the heaviest 12 volt load I had handy today, and that was a diaphragm-style air compressor suitable for refilling flat tires. Nowhere near, I think, as big a load as the fan, but it worked fine, and I couldn't even hear a difference in speed from the other switch positions. (I wasn't using any resistors.) If I had had
10 more minutes, I could have installed the fan (if I didn't connect the hot/cold lever) but something came up.Meirman
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You obviously DO NOT want a "conductive" grease in the switch.... it would obviously short it all out... a standard silicon or petroleum grease works great to lube the contact and helps it from oxidizing and pitting. The higher amp rating of the switch, the heavier contact pressure, the heavier the grease. electricitym . .
The best contact cleaners for many switches and pots contain a (non-conductive) lubricant that is left behind.... this protects the contact from rapidly oxidizing and pitting. In the old rotary TV tuners..... which contains multiple switch wiping contacts, a lubricating contact cleaner was always used for smooth, reliable, and long lasting repair. You obviously DO NOT want to use a CONDUCTIVE grease.... this would short everything out in a switch or pot. A light grease is used for smaller low current applications and a heavier grease is used for higher current applications. Silicon greases are good but also many petroleum based greases can be used. electricitym . . .
In alt.home.repair on 22 May 2005 18:53:54 -0700 snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com posted:
My gosh, you're right. I might have thought of this when I was reading the label. Thanks.
Meirman
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meirman wrote: ((snip))
Boy are you optimistic! I've had older cars most of my life, getting them at 50,000 miles or so (5-10 years old)and getting rid of them at over
100,000 (12-29 years old). Only recently have I ever had a problem with a heater switch. It was a car 9 years old with about 40,000 miles on it.Glad to hear the switch is working, now to find out if that was really the problem.
((snip))
You did nothing to start a fight. BinaryBill - this time as Red Cloud - is doing what he does routinely. When he does not have facts, then he posts insults. There is no fight. There is just BinaryBill again posting insults. He has a bruised ego having been repeatedly challenged to provide facts after claiming to have worked "with Grace Hopper on the original computer called Eniac in the 1940s" and claiming a spike is a DC voltage.
My first post was to remind quietguy that George E. Cawthon had posted one day previous the technical reasons for grease:
George first learned science instead of speculating. That was the point. One should first learn science rather than just speculate using "old wive" techniques. A second point: those who only post insults, never post numbers, and use numerous aliases do not demonstrate technical knowledge ... even if he did work with Grace Hopper on the Eniac. Meirman need not apologize for fictions and insults from BinaryBill - a.k.a. Red Cloud.
Okay, then, w_tom, please show me, and everyone else, where you specified what type of grease should be used in a switch, and it's characteristics. You can't.
You have a very long and colorful history in usenet of posting lengthy technical answers that contain enough true information to make them seem believable, but then you go further and add stuff that is completely and scientifically unsupportable.
You have used this technique for years to post advice, which if followed, could easily cause injury or death. I'm far from being the only one to point this out. Due to the danger of your posts, I've collected a few over the years, including responses of other very knowlegeable and sane people showing why you are so dangerous. Shall I start posting a few of them?
So, where did you say what kind of grease to use? I'm still waiting, troll.
rusty redcloud
In alt.home.repair on Sun, 22 May 2005 22:14:07 -0400 meirman posted:
But I might not have, of course. I was just trying not to feel too stupid. :)
Meirman
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In alt.home.repair on Mon, 23 May 2005 16:41:02 GMT Red Cloud© posted:
Didn't you read my last post in this subthread. He didn't claim to specify a grease, and there was no need for him to specify one.
This is a very busy group and I certainly don't read all of it, but he didn't do what you describe in this thread.
I'll be careful.
Meirman
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One more point I don't want to be missed.
If there were an open in the resistor block, if speed number 2 didn't work, then neither would speed number 1 (or speeds number 3 and 4, depending on the design, although of speed number 1 is the lowest speed, the simple design will probably always be like mine is.)
When I first diagnosed this, somehow I couldn't feel the air blowing in speed 1, but it was.
That means it is the switch which is the problem.
And if I didn't say it already, the switch is designed so that in all but from Off to speed 1, it makes before it breaks, which I think would reduce to near zero the amount of sparking.
More below, continued to the end.
In alt.home.repair on Mon, 23 May 2005 04:07:50 GMT "George E. Cawthon" posted:
Yes, I am. It's quite amazing at times. (And yet I can also be cynic.)
A sad commentary on car construction.
Well, I wasn't convinced it was working when I posted the above. I've tested things before and had them work on the bench but not where they were supposed to. And this one passed the test, minus the air compressor, the last time.
But today I put it in, and it works. If it breaks again, I'll try to let you guys know.
I've been repairing things since I was 7 or 8, and for the first 9 years, more than half the time, all I did was take them apart, put them back together again, and they worked. Not only did I not know why, I was pretty sure I didn't do anything that would make them work.
That's happened since then too. When it does, sometimes it's mystical. It's almost like I can lay hands on the thing and it will work. :)
I know that I'm not the only one with this experience.
Basically that's what happened the second time I took this control unit out. The first time I cleaned it, pushed aside the hard grease, but this time I really did nothing. I just made a bunch of measurements, took the switch out of the unit and put it back again, made more measurements. (and the one test).
Meirman
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Bit of a rave on there w_tom - don't get your knickers in such a knot, especially when you are wrong.
While you would be correct if one was specifying electrical contact grease, the post I responded to simply stated grease - and to most people that means ordinary grease like one uses to grease wheel bearings etc etc. Not the sort of crap to put in a switch
So, before spouting off, next time Tom have a look at the post that is being responded to before you start 'feeling' like posting silly stuff
David
w_tom wrote:
Maybe Tom didn't, but this guy did, and that is what I was responding to
David - who was clean> come on now..... if there wasn't supposed to be grease in there, why
Gide> When did w_tom suggest tossing just any old grease into the switch?
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